Elephants
07-03-2008, 11:16 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 753
Elephants
I wasn’t sure if I should post this here, but I decided to, because I know that many bowhunters are true nature lovers and respect the animals they hunt.
I respect other hunters’ decisions about what they hunt and what they don’t hunt and this isn’t meant to be preachy on this topic. But I could never hunt elephants, because of some of the things I have found out about their high level of intelligence and sensitivity (like the “funeral rites” they perform when a member of the herd dies, their greeting other elephants they have not seen in a decade or more, etc.). But I have never seen anything like this.
Apparently elephants can be taught to paint. And I don’t mean random paint strokes. The link below shows a video of an elephant painting a self portrait of itself holding a flower...and the painting isn’t half bad. The elephant in the video link is the only elephant that has gone beyond just painting copies of pictures they are presented with by their keepers and paints what it wants to (which is a series of self-portraits).
When I saw this video, I had to check to see if this was for real or some faked video. I checked it out on snopes.com (a great website, by the way), and snopes confirmed that this is for real.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/elephantpainting.asp
Again, let me stress that I know that there are probably people on this forum who hunt elephants, and I respect their decision to do so. But I just had to share this video with a group of folks who I know loves nature and respects the animals they hunt.
I respect other hunters’ decisions about what they hunt and what they don’t hunt and this isn’t meant to be preachy on this topic. But I could never hunt elephants, because of some of the things I have found out about their high level of intelligence and sensitivity (like the “funeral rites” they perform when a member of the herd dies, their greeting other elephants they have not seen in a decade or more, etc.). But I have never seen anything like this.
Apparently elephants can be taught to paint. And I don’t mean random paint strokes. The link below shows a video of an elephant painting a self portrait of itself holding a flower...and the painting isn’t half bad. The elephant in the video link is the only elephant that has gone beyond just painting copies of pictures they are presented with by their keepers and paints what it wants to (which is a series of self-portraits).
When I saw this video, I had to check to see if this was for real or some faked video. I checked it out on snopes.com (a great website, by the way), and snopes confirmed that this is for real.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/elephantpainting.asp
Again, let me stress that I know that there are probably people on this forum who hunt elephants, and I respect their decision to do so. But I just had to share this video with a group of folks who I know loves nature and respects the animals they hunt.
07-03-2008, 11:23 AM
#3
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Utah
Posts: 4,815
RE: Elephants
Elephants are really smart but don't be fooled by the paintings.
They are trained, one stroke at a time to draw the elephants and flowers. I've seen a bunch of those videos and in the ones where the elephants are still learning, you can see the trainer guiding the elephants movements. (usually by touching the elephants mouth and tongue.)
Elephants when on their own with a brush and paint make simple, random marks. No self portraits, no flowers.
Those are also Asian elephants which are not hunted anyhow.
They are trained, one stroke at a time to draw the elephants and flowers. I've seen a bunch of those videos and in the ones where the elephants are still learning, you can see the trainer guiding the elephants movements. (usually by touching the elephants mouth and tongue.)
Elephants when on their own with a brush and paint make simple, random marks. No self portraits, no flowers.
Those are also Asian elephants which are not hunted anyhow.
07-03-2008, 12:03 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 753
RE: Elephants
Christine,
Point taken regarding original artistic expression. But, as you said, they are very intelligent animals. And they are one of only a few species (humans, apes and dolphins are the only others that we know of) who can recognize themselves in a mirror (most other animals think they are looking at another animal) (http://www.livescience.com/animals/061030_elephant_mirror.html).
Wild elephantsalso engage in "funeral rites" when a member of a pack dies, especially calves. The elephants gather together and sway back and forth and "sing". And, years later, when a mother elephant passes by the place where a calf died on their long migrations, wll stop and perform a brief version of the "funeral rite" again. This is not taught behavior. They do this in the wild. Here is an exerpt from an article on the topic:
"When an elephant dies, its family members engage in intense mourning and burial rituals, conducting weeklong vigils over the body, carefully covering it with earth and brush, revisiting the bones for years afterward, caressing the bones with their trunks, often taking turns rubbing their trunks along the teeth of a skull’s lower jaw, the way living elephants do in greeting."
And, wild elephants will also perform these rights for humans, even when they are killed by elephants, the only other animal they do this for:
"After killing a villager, the elephants took his body and treated it to the same careful funeral rites as they would give to one of their own. When a group of villagers from Katwe went out to reclaim the man’s body for his family’s funeral rites, the elephants refused to budge. Human remains, a number of researchers have observed, are the only other ones that elephants will treat as they do their own. "
Point taken regarding original artistic expression. But, as you said, they are very intelligent animals. And they are one of only a few species (humans, apes and dolphins are the only others that we know of) who can recognize themselves in a mirror (most other animals think they are looking at another animal) (http://www.livescience.com/animals/061030_elephant_mirror.html).
Wild elephantsalso engage in "funeral rites" when a member of a pack dies, especially calves. The elephants gather together and sway back and forth and "sing". And, years later, when a mother elephant passes by the place where a calf died on their long migrations, wll stop and perform a brief version of the "funeral rite" again. This is not taught behavior. They do this in the wild. Here is an exerpt from an article on the topic:
"When an elephant dies, its family members engage in intense mourning and burial rituals, conducting weeklong vigils over the body, carefully covering it with earth and brush, revisiting the bones for years afterward, caressing the bones with their trunks, often taking turns rubbing their trunks along the teeth of a skull’s lower jaw, the way living elephants do in greeting."
And, wild elephants will also perform these rights for humans, even when they are killed by elephants, the only other animal they do this for:
"After killing a villager, the elephants took his body and treated it to the same careful funeral rites as they would give to one of their own. When a group of villagers from Katwe went out to reclaim the man’s body for his family’s funeral rites, the elephants refused to budge. Human remains, a number of researchers have observed, are the only other ones that elephants will treat as they do their own. "
07-03-2008, 12:07 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Posts: 1,613
RE: Elephants
Paintings aside, I would have to say that the "funeral rites" and greetings make it clear they have respect for others of the species. That is more than can be said for some of our species.
07-03-2008, 01:01 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
RE: Elephants
Biggest creature on earth? land mammal anyway.....
when I was younger I couldn't imagine hunting a elephant, certainly don't have any plans to in the near future either, but I certainly plan to hunt africa, after that I think I'll have a much better idea about it.
Seeing a few hunts on tv though, really got me charged up, seeing a huge bull charge to 15yds or less.
I think we should be culling tuskless males, from what I saw on discorvery, theyre more aggressive/dangerous, since no tusks....going up against males with tusks they need to be. So that bad temper causes more human conflicts....also elephants are overpopulated in many areas where they exist, destroying entire forests in their wake.
The tuskless have come about, due to the big bulls w/ tusks were most sought after, kinda selective breeding on the human part. I've read somewhat on the ivory trade, and I believe some ivory hunters killed, 10's of thousands of elephants which is completely staggering.
Personally I see it as being one intimidating hunt, talk about a creature that can kill you, no room for error in that scenario. Also if you care about the Big 5 or 6, you'll need to take one.
As far as elephants painting etc...., that doesn't make me more in love with elephants, everyone loves elephants, I believe its the #1 most loved animal on earth, in most studies. Also makes me wonder why an enclosed elephant has learned to paint? Zoos may be nice for us to see these wild animals, though I wouldn't say they necessarily enjoy it. Seems like prison to me.
So my perspective on elephant hunting is probably in my mind the "hunt itself"being the "trophy" as opposed to the end game/kill. More so than other hunts....
So maybe one day.....
maybe in 15yrs I'll post some pictures.....
when I was younger I couldn't imagine hunting a elephant, certainly don't have any plans to in the near future either, but I certainly plan to hunt africa, after that I think I'll have a much better idea about it.
Seeing a few hunts on tv though, really got me charged up, seeing a huge bull charge to 15yds or less.
I think we should be culling tuskless males, from what I saw on discorvery, theyre more aggressive/dangerous, since no tusks....going up against males with tusks they need to be. So that bad temper causes more human conflicts....also elephants are overpopulated in many areas where they exist, destroying entire forests in their wake.
The tuskless have come about, due to the big bulls w/ tusks were most sought after, kinda selective breeding on the human part. I've read somewhat on the ivory trade, and I believe some ivory hunters killed, 10's of thousands of elephants which is completely staggering.
Personally I see it as being one intimidating hunt, talk about a creature that can kill you, no room for error in that scenario. Also if you care about the Big 5 or 6, you'll need to take one.
As far as elephants painting etc...., that doesn't make me more in love with elephants, everyone loves elephants, I believe its the #1 most loved animal on earth, in most studies. Also makes me wonder why an enclosed elephant has learned to paint? Zoos may be nice for us to see these wild animals, though I wouldn't say they necessarily enjoy it. Seems like prison to me.
So my perspective on elephant hunting is probably in my mind the "hunt itself"being the "trophy" as opposed to the end game/kill. More so than other hunts....
So maybe one day.....
maybe in 15yrs I'll post some pictures.....
