You actually hunt with a bow shooting 342 fps? Take something from this old longtime bow hunter, shooting a bow with that light of an arrow is bound to produce more noise. In fact at longer distances I have found that deer are less likely to jump the string because the noise level is less at greater distances. I also hope you have some ommph on the front end of that arrow so it can penetrate. You can use all the Kinetic energy formulas you want, thats on paper my friend, speed may kill but I would rather my arrow go " whomp" instead of " ping" when it hits.

One other thing, you even so much as twitch with your setup and you might as well go look for a lost arrow.[:-]

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I get tired of hearing people say that light arrows don' t penetrate or have any momentum.
Lilhunter, I unsterstand what your saying but if the ping pong ball is going so fast it' s going to pass through you, would you want to be hit by it ????

Use whatever you like but don' t tell me that a light fast arrow can' t penetrate, I' ve got 14 stories of my on that say differently(broken shoulders and all)!!!

I think this to be a case of " extremes" . Krisken, your own bow is an extreme end of the spectrum example here.

Lets take a more realistic one in terms of speed, arrow weight and KE numbers. Take any of the 305-310 IBO rated bows on the market today and put an ultralight arrow setup on the bow...5 grains per pound. Just for argument' s sake lets say that results in a 325 grain arrow and an arrow speed of 280 fps (28 or 29 inch draw length and a fully loaded bowstring). That is " only" 56 ft. lbs of KE.

But, if you were to shoot a slightly heavier arrow...say a 100 grains more (425) then the arrow would slow down by roughly 20-25 fps (255-260 fps) and be producing anywhere from 61-64 ft lbs of KE. In all honesty I call that a substantial increase. Ofcourse, these figures vary greatly and the loss of KE/momentum in relation to an increase in arrow speed is not a bell shaped curve. There are " cut off" points at each end of the spectrum where too much arrow weight or not enough arrow weight is detrimental to the overall shooting characteristics of that particular bow and arrow combination.

The point being that though either of the setups mentioned will " do the job" provided shot placement is there, if shot placement is not perfect then a little more KE and momentum might allow you to still be more effective in putting the animal down. The key factor to all of this is to find what provides for the optimal setup for your situation.

Too light of an arrow normally does not produce enough KE, momentum or both..... can create a loud bow and can drastically increase the wear and tear on bow components. Plus the tradeoffs that a person normally has to deal with....low brace height, harsh draw cycle, etc.... can be more trouble than they are worth.

On the other hand, shooting too heavy of an arrow can result in a rainbow trajectory that makes yardage judging extremely critical. Take a bow shooting in the 225 fps range with a 600 grain arrow. That creates 67 ft. lbs of KE. Respectable in that category but then lets also look at trajectory...assuming an ICS carbon setup with 3, 4 inch plastic vanes and weight tubes installed.....and with the arrow parallel to the ground at launch.....

At 10 yards that is a 4 inch drop....at 20 yards it is a 15 inch drop....at 30 yards that is a 32 inch drop and at 40 yards it is a 58 inch drop.

Now, at the opposite end of the spectrum we take the arrow used in the first example....At 10 yards that is a 2 inch drop....at 20 yards it is a 9 inch drop....at 30 yards it is a 22 inch drop and at 40 yards it is a 41 inch drop.

That appears to be a significantly flatter trajectory especially when you get farther out into the 30 and 40 yard range. But, the arrow is probably going to be louder and carries at least 10 ft. lbs less KE.

As stated, these two examples are extreme ends of the spectrum. My point again being that I believe moderation to be the key. If we take the second arrow in the first example which weighs 425 grains and is traveling at 255-260 fps (64 ft. lbs of KE) and look at its trajectory.....

10 yards....3 inch drop....20 yards....11 inch drop.....30 yards...26 inch drop and at 40 yards a 47 inch drop ....

...then we can see that the bow still has a trajectory roughly comparable to the " speed setup" while still producing more KE/momentum and yet also offering a relative quiet, less critical setup.

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I feel strongly both ways.
I like speed for all the reasons mentioned in the opening post. For hunting a balance of KE & speed is a must, and in my opinion KE takes priority.

If you' re hunting whitetail the min KE reccommended is 40-45lbs I think. If you' re setup is giving you 45-50lbs KE at 5-6 grains a pound then I think you should consider a heavier arrow for hunting. It would increase KE and give you a little slop energy.

If on the other hand your setup is giving you 65-70lbs KE at 5-6 grains a pound then you already have some slop. I' d say KE is not a problem for you, given you hit what you aim at. Changing arrow weight to bring your KE up to 75lbs is probably not worth your time for hunting whitetails.

IF you' re shooting 80+ lbs of KE and still carrying >260fps I' d say you' ve reached a good balance of KE versus Speed Krisken. Brave of you to jump up on the stump though, these guys are good shots.

out

Cargo

I like a faster setup. But use a middle of the road weight arrow. Frank' s example shows, to me, the heavier arrow is not detrimental within 30 yds. As far as trajectory goes. Beyond 30, the lighter arrow' s trajectory becomes a plus. Aiding in shot placement as it relates to distance estimation. At that point, what' s better? A well placed shot with a lighter arrow? Or a poorly placed shot with a heavy arrow?

Are you saying that you are dead on at 10 yds, about 1/2" low at 20yds, 3/4" low at 30yds and one inch low at 37 yds.??

These numbers are no where close to what I or others I know have found.

Are you shooting over a thermal[>:]

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Your presumption is that higher Ke automatically translates into better penetration. But then you want to dismiss animals that present the toughest resistance to penetration? Sorry, but your position falls flat at that point.

Whitetails aren' t exactly the litmus test of penetration. As a matter of fact, they' re probably one of the easiest of all big game animals to get an arrow through. If you want to talk penetration, then respectfully, you need to address animals that actually pose a challenge.

Seeing as I' ve personally blown through more than a handful of whitetails with under 30# of Ke, I' d say it' s vastly overrated. Like I said...it sure sells a lot of bows every year though.

Alright, forget Africa. Call a professional guide and tell him you want to hunt Alaskan moose or Kodiaks with that set-up of yours. Again...don' t take his laughing personally.

Didn' t you close your first post with..." What else is there to say?.......SPEED KILLS!" ? Hmmmmmmmm..... []

You can' t pretend to debate an absolute, then sluff off that which refutes your claim. [:-]

JRW