How?

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The serious answer is, whichever one gets within his effective range, makes a good shot selection and properly places a well executed shot.

Just to clarify things: Are we talking about BOWHUNTING or strictly about KILLING? If all I was concerned about was killing a deer, then I wouldn' t shoot a bow at all. A gun is much more efficient beyond 30 yards and I haven' t seen a deer yet that can jump the string on a bullet. I bowhunt especially so I HAVE to get within 30 yards of a deer. 20 yards is even better.

Krisken:
In the formula: KE is the unknown

Mass- weight of the arrow in grains (weight in grams/7000) (I have a scale and I weigh my arrows with broadheads) Therefore this is a GIVEN.
Velocity- Speed of the arrow in fps (As shot through a chronograph in fps-this also is GIVEN).

The 450240 is a constant that is derived from the basic trajectory formula 1/2 of the Mass times velocity squared. The derivation becomes 2 X the speed of gravity (32.16) times 7000 (the weight conversion)

Plug the given values into the formula KE=Mass (VelocityXVelocity/450240) and you have only one unknown . . . the Kinetic Energy.

and the very next half of the paragraph...........


I think people are failing to see the jist of KE.....its IMPACT oriented. KE does not drive an arrow through, Momentum is what keeps the arrow penetrating. Granted there is other factors then just these two but you are only looking at these two subjects at hand. Not to mention one takes one factor in account twice as much as the other and the fact these KE and Mom are both relating to different factors of the total penetration scheme but yet still KE seems to be the big factor. Why? Hype, market sales, a simplier understanding maybe?

Granted you need BOTH, but whats more important when your hole goal is penetrating an animal, a high KE or high Mom? ON whitetails, it really shouldnt matter, even with my longbow I can drive through shoulders on whitetails.

....now it is my turn to say " Well said" Lilhunter.


Arthur,

I do not doubt your personal experiences with those proficiency tests and believe that I would find the same thing if they were conducted at some of the clubs that I belong to.

I think you might have read too much into my reference about bows that shoot 600 grain arrows at 270 fps. I was not implying that they needed to have a short brace height or a stiff draw force curve to achieve this but rather an advancement in the materials we use, etc... would allow these type of numbers to be achieved relatively easily without having to resort to factors that would make it difficult for the newcomer to participate in our sport.

Ahh, the age-old quote of the fast miss. Just for the sake of playing devil' s advocate the opposite could also be a true....

A miss is a miss no matter how much momentum or kinetic energy the arrow is carrying. [:-]

And there are plenty of knuckleheads that can miss with a rifle just as easy.

If you haven' t guessed already... I question the motives of those who feel speed is the end all, be all for a hunting bow. I want to know WHY they bowhunt in the first place. Is it for the challenge and thrill of the hunt or simply to kill an animal? I want to know WHY they seem to feel obligated to shoot 35, 40 yards and further.

Even out west where they say they have to shoot longer distances, I don' t believe it. You shoot longer distances because it' s -easier- to lob one out there than it is to get closer. It' s also easier to shoot ' em with a gun, so if easy is what someone wants, then they need to be gun hunting instead of trying to make bowhunting easier.

Okay, there' s the cue for someone to start hollering ' elitist.' My honest opinion though.

ArthurP, First of all I resemble that remark about using a fast bow and shooting at animals at 30 or 40 yards or whatever you said. I shot my first deer with a bow at 35 yards and double lunged him and He only went 40 yards. My second deer that year that was last year not this past one was shot at 17 yards. I have no problem with shooting at 45 yards and don' t think I am wrong and am totally thrilled with taking an animal (deer) at that range. Now don' t think that I would pass on a buck because he was too close and I want to shoot at him farther away. Not even close. I really am enjoying bowhunting since I started in fall of 2001. But don' t think that I have been only shoot a bow since then NOPE I have shot for years and have been taking lessons from professional and shot some competition also Albeit I did this years ago. BUt I have no doubts about me hitting the mark on a deer at 45 yards ITS a DUCK SHOT. I don' t consider a long shot till after 45 yards. And no I hear you saying why do you hunt with a bow then! I enjoy the challenge to it. I enjoy the practice involved and all the preparation involved in finding that perfect place that will bring a deer to within 45 yards. Not like muzzelloader or rifle season where you just have to be in an area that can look over a couple 100 yards to be able to harvest him.

I hope you are not saying or questioning me for my beliefs as to my ethics and joy of bowhunting because I would take a 45 yard shot. I guess if it is then I would say to me a 45 yarder to me would be like a 15-20 yarder for most.

I am enjoying bowhunting more and more as time goes by and I do like a fast bow. I also wont shoot a needle at the speen of light. Moderation moderation moderation. If I can shoot a bow that shoots an arrow of 550 grains at 250 or a 400 gr arrow at 325 I want the 400 at 325 Its just me I like the feeling of being able to having a flatter trajectory with the faster bow. Now another reason I have is to my first buck I took that was at 35 yards. I didn' t expect to see him come from that direction totally not where I thought he would of came from but it does happen as we all know. Well he came in a direction that I didn' t know and I didn' t have any shooting lanes in which to shoot. So I just watched and looked ahead to see where he might go and where I can take a shot at. So I find one and see that I have to be able to put my shot through 2 trees then under a branch and over a branch If you can see this in your mind it makes up a little square for me to get the arrow there. Now this little area I had to shoot from was about 15 yards before the deer So I needed the speed of the arrow to have a flat enough trajectory to make it through the space and stay flat enought to make a good hit. Well As stated before I double lunged him and he only went 40 yards.

So I guess with this case speed helped me out. ANd No range finder was used at all. If I had a slower bow I couldn' t of shot at this deer. But as it is he was my first with a bow and is PROUDLY displayed on my wall. He is not the biggest buck but a nice 8 pointer and am as proud as hell.

I can still remember every detail from that hunt and I am smiling now as I type this.

And just incase you think I am nuts or not a consciencous hunter or non ethical hunter I had this past year the biggest buck I have seen in the woods for me that is. He was a beauty of an 8 pointer. I had him come in to about 5 yards of my stand and I didn' t shoot do to not the right angle. He was only straight at me and then went straight way no good shooting angle. I was crushed but I felt good to be able to see him and not make a mistake of shooting at the back of an animal and having the chance of wounding him.
I just hope to get a crack at him this year. Well that is about as good as I can put it for me liking a faster bow than a slower bow providing I can shoot them equally as well.

Brian

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Krisken there are too many variables to come to an equation that would determine a specific penetration on a specific animal. Somewhere in the vastness of my multi-gig hard drive, I have a table that identifies a range of Kinetic Energies recommended to take a specific animal. But that is as close as one could come.

They do not say that these are the only KE factors that would work, only that they are recommended values. I try to stay within these values and I' d confidently tackle a griz with my 60 ft-lbs of KE in a heartbeat.

In my mind, I think the only way to be sure is to test each setup in a hunting situation which in itself is full of incalculable variables.