Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
06-14-2008 | 03:27 PM
#31
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,368
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From: Mont County, Pa
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: racewayking
IMO I would start looking for an outfitter that hunts the way I do. This outfitter has some great results but he isn't the only outfitter out there. There are plenty of outfitters in the Midwest that could provide results equal to this guy without you freezing your butt off and following his NAZI hunting policies.
ORIGINAL: Seif5034
Personally, I'd do as he reccomends. The proof is in the pudding and he owns a pudding factory!
Personally, I'd do as he reccomends. The proof is in the pudding and he owns a pudding factory!
I don't really freeze my butt off though. After three years of hunting up there, I know how to dress.The colder it is up there , the better the big buck movement is. Another reason I go up there is that there is no draw (gaurenteed tags) unlike most good mid-west states. Good thoughts though.
06-14-2008 | 08:13 PM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
From: Pingree Grove, IL
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in
Thanks raceway, that was funny, I must admit.I don't really freeze my butt off though. After three years of hunting up there, I know how to dress.The colder it is up there , the better the big buck movement is. Another reason I go up there is that there is no draw (gaurenteed tags) unlike most good mid-west states. Good thoughts though.
ORIGINAL: racewayking
IMO I would start looking for an outfitter that hunts the way I do. This outfitter has some great results but he isn't the only outfitter out there. There are plenty of outfitters in the Midwest that could provide results equal to this guy without you freezing your butt off and following his NAZI hunting policies.
ORIGINAL: Seif5034
Personally, I'd do as he reccomends. The proof is in the pudding and he owns a pudding factory!
Personally, I'd do as he reccomends. The proof is in the pudding and he owns a pudding factory!
I don't really freeze my butt off though. After three years of hunting up there, I know how to dress.The colder it is up there , the better the big buck movement is. Another reason I go up there is that there is no draw (gaurenteed tags) unlike most good mid-west states. Good thoughts though.
06-14-2008 | 10:53 PM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 0
From: Northern Idaho's Panhandle
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
I'd like to know what time of the day he arrowed his #2 (probably straight up noon!)
As I read through this thread, (interesting to say the least) many questions and comments that TJF brought forth, I too had. Thanks Tim now I dont have to ask!
Personally, During the RUT I prefer less intrusion and longer sits during.. On the other handI hunt almost exactly like that guy does from August 30 roughly into the first week of Nov. (our rut is later here, like Albertas.. mid Nov to the first week in Dec) But once that those big bucks start crusing and moving during the daylight I like being out there all day everyday that I can. I only have to enter the woods once and leave it. By this time of the year, (late Nov) many deer, especially the old bucks and doeshave hunters patterned and choose to move during the mid day because they've had hunters leave the woods at 10-11 and come back in the afternoon for two months straight.. I have seen/witnessed a tonof BIG Buck movement from 11-3 pm from Nov 20th to Dec5-6 here
Finally, Ihave to agree withwhat Dan said, if you dont like his method, then I'd pick another Outfitter after this year, but if you go up there and kill a monster from daylight till 11 or during your afternoon hunt, I bet ya rebook before you leave! LOL have fun.. no matter what it sounds like the man is meticulous and has his area dial.. Like GMMAT said its his woods..
(probably straight up noon!) As I read through this thread, (interesting to say the least) many questions and comments that TJF brought forth, I too had. Thanks Tim now I dont have to ask!
Personally, During the RUT I prefer less intrusion and longer sits during.. On the other handI hunt almost exactly like that guy does from August 30 roughly into the first week of Nov. (our rut is later here, like Albertas.. mid Nov to the first week in Dec) But once that those big bucks start crusing and moving during the daylight I like being out there all day everyday that I can. I only have to enter the woods once and leave it. By this time of the year, (late Nov) many deer, especially the old bucks and doeshave hunters patterned and choose to move during the mid day because they've had hunters leave the woods at 10-11 and come back in the afternoon for two months straight.. I have seen/witnessed a tonof BIG Buck movement from 11-3 pm from Nov 20th to Dec5-6 here
Finally, Ihave to agree withwhat Dan said, if you dont like his method, then I'd pick another Outfitter after this year, but if you go up there and kill a monster from daylight till 11 or during your afternoon hunt, I bet ya rebook before you leave! LOL have fun.. no matter what it sounds like the man is meticulous and has his area dial.. Like GMMAT said its his woods..
06-15-2008 | 12:18 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 0
From: ND
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
Troy
I run my camp the same way this guy does!! You will see when you get here next December.[8D]
early in
Thanks for the details. This guy's way of running his campis very interesting and if I were to drop thousands of dollars on a guided hunt, I would pick a stricter run camp then a sloppier run camp.
How many hunters were successful while you were there?? How many had shots but botched or decided to pass on a 130 or better last year while you were there?? Where majority of the hunters happy with him. How many were repeat customers ?? These are all things to look at from last year's hunt.
If you are seeing bucks at any given time... he has accomplished not pressuring them. That in itself says a lot about him. Granted the rut does play a part but how pressured the deer is very important when you can control the hunters verses what most of us see when it is a mad house of hunters running all over doing more damage then good. Lack of pressure is a very good thing.
He has to stick with a plan or he loses control. While you might like to hunt all day, some might want to hunt just a few hours for theAM andPM hunts. How do you keep everyone 100%happy without making a mess of things by letting them call all the shots and possiblyruining spots?? He has 6 more hunters coming the following week. He has to keep them happy too with unpressured deer so they have better odds atoppertunities too.
It sounds like everyone is treated the same by such strict rules. That too me is worth something too. You know what to expect from him since he lays it all out.
I would rather lose a few hours of hunting in his camp then gain a few hours in a sloppier run camp. Odds are more in your favor of seeing bucks and getting opertunities in his camp. If you could find another outfitter that runs a strict camp but allows all day sits... life would be great.
Tim
I run my camp the same way this guy does!! You will see when you get here next December.[8D]
early in
Thanks for the details. This guy's way of running his campis very interesting and if I were to drop thousands of dollars on a guided hunt, I would pick a stricter run camp then a sloppier run camp.
How many hunters were successful while you were there?? How many had shots but botched or decided to pass on a 130 or better last year while you were there?? Where majority of the hunters happy with him. How many were repeat customers ?? These are all things to look at from last year's hunt.
If you are seeing bucks at any given time... he has accomplished not pressuring them. That in itself says a lot about him. Granted the rut does play a part but how pressured the deer is very important when you can control the hunters verses what most of us see when it is a mad house of hunters running all over doing more damage then good. Lack of pressure is a very good thing.
He has to stick with a plan or he loses control. While you might like to hunt all day, some might want to hunt just a few hours for theAM andPM hunts. How do you keep everyone 100%happy without making a mess of things by letting them call all the shots and possiblyruining spots?? He has 6 more hunters coming the following week. He has to keep them happy too with unpressured deer so they have better odds atoppertunities too.
It sounds like everyone is treated the same by such strict rules. That too me is worth something too. You know what to expect from him since he lays it all out.
I would rather lose a few hours of hunting in his camp then gain a few hours in a sloppier run camp. Odds are more in your favor of seeing bucks and getting opertunities in his camp. If you could find another outfitter that runs a strict camp but allows all day sits... life would be great.
Tim
06-15-2008 | 01:16 AM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: TJF
Troy
I run my camp the same way this guy does!! You will see when you get here next December.[8D]
early in
Thanks for the details. This guy's way of running his campis very interesting and if I were to drop thousands of dollars on a guided hunt, I would pick a stricter run camp then a sloppier run camp.
How many hunters were successful while you were there?? How many had shots but botched or decided to pass on a 130 or better last year while you were there?? Where majority of the hunters happy with him. How many were repeat customers ?? These are all things to look at from last year's hunt.
If you are seeing bucks at any given time... he has accomplished not pressuring them. That in itself says a lot about him. Granted the rut does play a part but how pressured the deer is very important when you can control the hunters verses what most of us see when it is a mad house of hunters running all over doing more damage then good. Lack of pressure is a very good thing.
He has to stick with a plan or he loses control. While you might like to hunt all day, some might want to hunt just a few hours for theAM andPM hunts. How do you keep everyone 100%happy without making a mess of things by letting them call all the shots and possiblyruining spots?? He has 6 more hunters coming the following week. He has to keep them happy too with unpressured deer so they have better odds atoppertunities too.
It sounds like everyone is treated the same by such strict rules. That too me is worth something too. You know what to expect from him since he lays it all out.
I would rather lose a few hours of hunting in his camp then gain a few hours in a sloppier run camp. Odds are more in your favor of seeing bucks and getting opertunities in his camp. If you could find another outfitter that runs a strict camp but allows all day sits... life would be great.
Tim
Troy
I run my camp the same way this guy does!! You will see when you get here next December.[8D]
early in
Thanks for the details. This guy's way of running his campis very interesting and if I were to drop thousands of dollars on a guided hunt, I would pick a stricter run camp then a sloppier run camp.
How many hunters were successful while you were there?? How many had shots but botched or decided to pass on a 130 or better last year while you were there?? Where majority of the hunters happy with him. How many were repeat customers ?? These are all things to look at from last year's hunt.
If you are seeing bucks at any given time... he has accomplished not pressuring them. That in itself says a lot about him. Granted the rut does play a part but how pressured the deer is very important when you can control the hunters verses what most of us see when it is a mad house of hunters running all over doing more damage then good. Lack of pressure is a very good thing.
He has to stick with a plan or he loses control. While you might like to hunt all day, some might want to hunt just a few hours for theAM andPM hunts. How do you keep everyone 100%happy without making a mess of things by letting them call all the shots and possiblyruining spots?? He has 6 more hunters coming the following week. He has to keep them happy too with unpressured deer so they have better odds atoppertunities too.
It sounds like everyone is treated the same by such strict rules. That too me is worth something too. You know what to expect from him since he lays it all out.
I would rather lose a few hours of hunting in his camp then gain a few hours in a sloppier run camp. Odds are more in your favor of seeing bucks and getting opertunities in his camp. If you could find another outfitter that runs a strict camp but allows all day sits... life would be great.
Tim
06-15-2008 | 08:03 AM
#36
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 0
From: Mont County, Pa
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
Thanks guys, for all of the input. I appreciate it. I admire and respectthe way this man hunts. And, I also know he runs his camp the way he does for a lot of the reasons you mentioned TJF! And it makes perfect sense to me. I don't go up there to buck (no pun intended)his system, or try to be a nonconformist.I have/will hunt HIS way.
Last year, 2 hunters in our groupkilled bucks. A 125" and a 140" buck. A few big boys were also seen.I saw 2 reallynice 140"-150" bucks as well. I let 2 120"-125" bucks walk right past my stand. Seeing bucks isn't a problem up here. Here's a scanned pic of his buck. It grossed 197" and netted 193". Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them. Food for thought.
Oh yea, he killed this buck just before dark.
)his system, or try to be a nonconformist.I have/will hunt HIS way.Last year, 2 hunters in our groupkilled bucks. A 125" and a 140" buck. A few big boys were also seen.I saw 2 reallynice 140"-150" bucks as well. I let 2 120"-125" bucks walk right past my stand. Seeing bucks isn't a problem up here. Here's a scanned pic of his buck. It grossed 197" and netted 193". Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them. Food for thought.
Oh yea, he killed this buck just before dark.
06-15-2008 | 08:17 AM
#37
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,415
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin and Canada
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.
06-15-2008 | 08:28 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
From: Pingree Grove, IL
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: _Dan
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.
ORIGINAL: early in
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.
06-15-2008 | 08:29 AM
#39
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 0
From: Mont County, Pa
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: _Dan
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.
ORIGINAL: early in
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.