Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
06-16-2008 | 07:00 AM
#51
Bartender
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
Try to breath through your nose the best you can brotha
ORIGINAL: racewayking
Jeff- What does he do to cover everyone's breath? Time and time again I see people go nuts trying to hide scent but if your breath smells like crap and the deer are down wind then everything else is a wast unless you are huffing oxygen through a mask.
Jeff- What does he do to cover everyone's breath? Time and time again I see people go nuts trying to hide scent but if your breath smells like crap and the deer are down wind then everything else is a wast unless you are huffing oxygen through a mask.
06-16-2008 | 07:17 AM
#52
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,415
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin and Canada
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: TJF
Dan
The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt.
Dan
The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt.
Jeff and I talked about this via pm......and you're right, I was talking about the whole season and not just per week. Jeff had said he mispoke, so these number go right out the window.........
06-16-2008 | 07:40 AM
#53
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
From: Pingree Grove, IL
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: peakrut
Try to breath through your nose the best you can brotha
Try to breath through your nose the best you can brotha
ORIGINAL: racewayking
Jeff- What does he do to cover everyone's breath? Time and time again I see people go nuts trying to hide scent but if your breath smells like crap and the deer are down wind then everything else is a wast unless you are huffing oxygen through a mask.
Jeff- What does he do to cover everyone's breath? Time and time again I see people go nuts trying to hide scent but if your breath smells like crap and the deer are down wind then everything else is a wast unless you are huffing oxygen through a mask.
06-16-2008 | 07:49 AM
#54
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 0
From: Mont County, Pa
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: racewayking
Jeff- I have to say this and don't take it the wrong way. Obviously you are not 100% satisfied with the arrangements and methods he uses. As this thread goes on it appears that you take pride in the fact that you are hunting with a well respected deer expert, yet challenge his philosophy on the mid afternoon hunt. Are you sure you are not too into the fact he accepts you and allows you to hunt there more than you appreciate the possibilities you gain by booking a hunt there?
You can book fully guided rut hunts for 3k in Pike County, Illinois which is the #2 Boon and Crockett producer and likely be allowed to hunt your way with better odds of getting a solid P&Y or Booner than what I am seeing up there in Alberta. Just a little food for thought considering this thread started off because you were not fully satisfied in what your experience was. I would say if you took what you learned from Jim Hole and applied it to another area that you would have some great success and maybe more happiness in your hunt. Just a little food for thought from the Land of Lincoln
ORIGINAL: early in
Everything you said is exactly accurate. You know his ways, no doubt.Jim is quite well off and actually chooses who hunts with him. He has hunters who have hunted as many as 8 years in a row (regulars). He doesn't worry at all about bookings.If he likes the way you carry yourself, you'll be invited back, if he doesn't, you'll need to find another place to hunt. He makes that more than clear.
ORIGINAL: tsoc
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
You can book fully guided rut hunts for 3k in Pike County, Illinois which is the #2 Boon and Crockett producer and likely be allowed to hunt your way with better odds of getting a solid P&Y or Booner than what I am seeing up there in Alberta. Just a little food for thought considering this thread started off because you were not fully satisfied in what your experience was. I would say if you took what you learned from Jim Hole and applied it to another area that you would have some great success and maybe more happiness in your hunt. Just a little food for thought from the Land of Lincoln
By the same token, I have had success ('06) as well up there hunting all day. My main goal with this thread was to see what others thought about this, and how they would handle it. My ideal scenario would be to get dropped off at my favorite stand site well before first light, and not be picked up until a half hour after dark.
I'm going to see if this can arranged this season. If it can't be, I'm not going to take my ball and go home.
I'm well aware of my options as a paying customer/hunter, but I really love this region (no tag draw) and the huge bucks that I KNOW are there. Like I say, I'm just after thoughts/opinions. So far, I think this has been a fun/educational type thread. Especially for those who might be planning their first guided hunting trip.
06-16-2008 | 08:04 AM
#56
Dominant Buck
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 21,043
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
I've been thinking about this for a while, now.....and I have a different twist that I don't know has been addressed (that "might" make your guide's outlook/ideology seem a little more sound).
I would "think" that a hunter.....hunting in an "all day sit" type situation.....runs a "risk" of having to get down and relieve himself a LOT more than the hunter who is only sitting for 5 or so hours. If your guide's trying to eliminate as much human scent in the area as he can.....he may be banking on this. I don't know too many guys who can (or will) stay in their STAND all day.
I'm also not making the assumption that human "waste" is any more discernable to the whitetail than any other animals'. I'm just making an observation.
I would also "surmise" that not every hunter is as versed/dedicated/committed to their scent regimen as the guide would like for them to be. He may demand it....and, if so, I think he's doing the right thing (again....it's YOUR money.....but HIS means of making his living). He has to put another hunter in those woods after you leave. I hope the term "it's not all about YOU" isn't too harsh.....but I think you get my jist.
I would "think" that a hunter.....hunting in an "all day sit" type situation.....runs a "risk" of having to get down and relieve himself a LOT more than the hunter who is only sitting for 5 or so hours. If your guide's trying to eliminate as much human scent in the area as he can.....he may be banking on this. I don't know too many guys who can (or will) stay in their STAND all day.
I'm also not making the assumption that human "waste" is any more discernable to the whitetail than any other animals'. I'm just making an observation.
I would also "surmise" that not every hunter is as versed/dedicated/committed to their scent regimen as the guide would like for them to be. He may demand it....and, if so, I think he's doing the right thing (again....it's YOUR money.....but HIS means of making his living). He has to put another hunter in those woods after you leave. I hope the term "it's not all about YOU" isn't too harsh.....but I think you get my jist.
06-16-2008 | 08:06 AM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
From: Pingree Grove, IL
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in
I'm not 100% happy, simply becauseI'm nothunting all day.I'm willing to conform to his hunting strategy, as it has shown results for his hunters.
By the same token, I have had success ('06) as well up there hunting all day. My main goal with this thread was to see what others thought about this, and how they would handle it. My ideal scenario would be to get dropped off at my favorite stand site well before first light, and not be picked up until a half hour after dark.
I'm going to see if this can arranged this season. If it can't be, I'm not going to take my ball and go home. I'm well aware of my options as a paying customer/hunter, but I really love this region (no tag draw) and the huge bucks that I KNOW are there. Like I say, I'm just after thoughts/opinions. So far, I think this has been a fun/educational type thread. Especially for those who might be planning their first guided hunting trip.
ORIGINAL: racewayking
Jeff- I have to say this and don't take it the wrong way. Obviously you are not 100% satisfied with the arrangements and methods he uses. As this thread goes on it appears that you take pride in the fact that you are hunting with a well respected deer expert, yet challenge his philosophy on the mid afternoon hunt. Are you sure you are not too into the fact he accepts you and allows you to hunt there more than you appreciate the possibilities you gain by booking a hunt there?
You can book fully guided rut hunts for 3k in Pike County, Illinois which is the #2 Boon and Crockett producer and likely be allowed to hunt your way with better odds of getting a solid P&Y or Booner than what I am seeing up there in Alberta. Just a little food for thought considering this thread started off because you were not fully satisfied in what your experience was. I would say if you took what you learned from Jim Hole and applied it to another area that you would have some great success and maybe more happiness in your hunt. Just a little food for thought from the Land of Lincoln
ORIGINAL: early in
Everything you said is exactly accurate. You know his ways, no doubt.Jim is quite well off and actually chooses who hunts with him. He has hunters who have hunted as many as 8 years in a row (regulars). He doesn't worry at all about bookings.If he likes the way you carry yourself, you'll be invited back, if he doesn't, you'll need to find another place to hunt. He makes that more than clear.
ORIGINAL: tsoc
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
You can book fully guided rut hunts for 3k in Pike County, Illinois which is the #2 Boon and Crockett producer and likely be allowed to hunt your way with better odds of getting a solid P&Y or Booner than what I am seeing up there in Alberta. Just a little food for thought considering this thread started off because you were not fully satisfied in what your experience was. I would say if you took what you learned from Jim Hole and applied it to another area that you would have some great success and maybe more happiness in your hunt. Just a little food for thought from the Land of Lincoln
By the same token, I have had success ('06) as well up there hunting all day. My main goal with this thread was to see what others thought about this, and how they would handle it. My ideal scenario would be to get dropped off at my favorite stand site well before first light, and not be picked up until a half hour after dark.
I'm going to see if this can arranged this season. If it can't be, I'm not going to take my ball and go home.
I'm well aware of my options as a paying customer/hunter, but I really love this region (no tag draw) and the huge bucks that I KNOW are there. Like I say, I'm just after thoughts/opinions. So far, I think this has been a fun/educational type thread. Especially for those who might be planning their first guided hunting trip.
06-16-2008 | 08:37 AM
#58
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 0
From: Mont County, Pa
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
I've been thinking about this for a while, now.....and I have a different twist that I don't know has been addressed (that "might" make your guide's outlook/ideology seem a little more sound).
I would "think" that a hunter.....hunting in an "all day sit" type situation.....runs a "risk" of having to get down and relieve himself a LOT more than the hunter who is only sitting for 5 or so hours. If your guide's trying to eliminate as much human scent in the area as he can.....he may be banking on this. I don't know too many guys who can (or will) stay in their STAND all day.
I'm also not making the assumption that human "waste" is any more discernable to the whitetail than any other animals'. I'm just making an observation.
I would also "surmise" that not every hunter is as versed/dedicated/committed to their scent regimen as the guide would like for them to be. He may demand it....and, if so, I think he's doing the right thing (again....it's YOUR money.....but HIS means of making his living). He has to put another hunter in those woods after you leave. I hope the term "it's not all about YOU" isn't too harsh.....but I think you get my jist.
I've been thinking about this for a while, now.....and I have a different twist that I don't know has been addressed (that "might" make your guide's outlook/ideology seem a little more sound).
I would "think" that a hunter.....hunting in an "all day sit" type situation.....runs a "risk" of having to get down and relieve himself a LOT more than the hunter who is only sitting for 5 or so hours. If your guide's trying to eliminate as much human scent in the area as he can.....he may be banking on this. I don't know too many guys who can (or will) stay in their STAND all day.
I'm also not making the assumption that human "waste" is any more discernable to the whitetail than any other animals'. I'm just making an observation.
I would also "surmise" that not every hunter is as versed/dedicated/committed to their scent regimen as the guide would like for them to be. He may demand it....and, if so, I think he's doing the right thing (again....it's YOUR money.....but HIS means of making his living). He has to put another hunter in those woods after you leave. I hope the term "it's not all about YOU" isn't too harsh.....but I think you get my jist.
He has a 120" min/ draw blood rule and don't recover. If you breech these rules, it cost you $300. This money goes into a fund that goes back into the whitetails of the region. He bought one of those mechanical deer that they use to catch poachers, and donated it to the local (Bow Zone) law enforcement people.
And yes, I keep praising the guy because of who/what he is. It doesn't mean he has to hunt the way "I want to hunt". I'll keep hunting with him as long as I can keep affording to hunt with him. I'm like a whitetail, very adaptable.
06-16-2008 | 11:51 PM
#60
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 0
From: ND
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: _Dan
Tim,
Jeff and I talked about this via pm......and you're right, I was talking about the whole season and not just per week. Jeff had said he mispoke, so these number go right out the window.........
ORIGINAL: TJF
Dan
The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt.
Dan
The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt.
Jeff and I talked about this via pm......and you're right, I was talking about the whole season and not just per week. Jeff had said he mispoke, so these number go right out the window.........
Just kidding !!!!!!!I hope my reply didn't come off as disagreeing with you. Was not meant that way. The part you quoted wasmore of" attempt" asan openerto get tothe main part of my reply. It shouldhave been worded better.
Tim