Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
06-15-2008 | 02:12 PM
#45
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
From: Pingree Grove, IL
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in
He's probably the best up there.
ORIGINAL: GregH
He's got a solid reputation. I'd say you've got a good thing going for you!
He's got a solid reputation. I'd say you've got a good thing going for you!
He did say something about playing the wind and hunting downwind from deer trails if I remember correctly.
06-15-2008 | 10:44 PM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 0
From: ND
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: _Dan
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.
ORIGINAL: early in
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.
The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt.
Even with driving his hunters in/out to the stand sitesfor a total of4 times a day... deer will put up with vehicles much more then hunters on foot walking in and out.Deer are great atpatterning huntersscent to a stand, around the standor busting them on the walking in or out. Not just when they are there but even after they are gone.Does a deer really pattern a vehicle since it would not really be a threat to them in this situation??They probably would get use to the vehicle intrusion just as they do agequipment here and not precieve it as pressure to my thinking.Smart onhis partin keeping pressure to a minimumfor business.
Look at how much time it takes.They are probablyin and out in just minutes by his guides dropping them off and picking them up right at the stand site. We usually walkanywheres from at least a1/2 mile to over a mile toget into our spots. Who is doing more damage by leaving scent or busting deer even as careful as we try to be??
Interesting stuff and a fun " conversation ".
Tim
06-16-2008 | 05:23 AM
#47
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 0
From: Mont County, Pa
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: TJF
Dan
The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt.
Even with driving his hunters in/out to the stand sitesfor a total of4 times a day... deer will put up with vehicles much more then hunters on foot walking in and out.Deer are great atpatterning huntersscent to a stand, around the standor busting them on the walking in or out. Not just when they are there but even after they are gone.Does a deer really pattern a vehicle since it would not really be a threat to them in this situation??They probably would get use to the vehicle intrusion just as they do agequipment here and not precieve it as pressure to my thinking.Smart onhis partin keeping pressure to a minimumfor business.
Look at how much time it takes.They are probablyin and out in just minutes by his guides dropping them off and picking them up right at the stand site. We usually walkanywheres from at least a1/2 mile to over a mile toget into our spots. Who is doing more damage by leaving scent or busting deer even as careful as we try to be??
Interesting stuff and a fun " conversation ".
Tim
ORIGINAL: _Dan
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.
ORIGINAL: early in
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
He owns and has access to 2000 acres.
Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them.
Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres.
Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does.
If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style.
JMHO.
The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt.
Even with driving his hunters in/out to the stand sitesfor a total of4 times a day... deer will put up with vehicles much more then hunters on foot walking in and out.Deer are great atpatterning huntersscent to a stand, around the standor busting them on the walking in or out. Not just when they are there but even after they are gone.Does a deer really pattern a vehicle since it would not really be a threat to them in this situation??They probably would get use to the vehicle intrusion just as they do agequipment here and not precieve it as pressure to my thinking.Smart onhis partin keeping pressure to a minimumfor business.
Look at how much time it takes.They are probablyin and out in just minutes by his guides dropping them off and picking them up right at the stand site. We usually walkanywheres from at least a1/2 mile to over a mile toget into our spots. Who is doing more damage by leaving scent or busting deer even as careful as we try to be??
Interesting stuff and a fun " conversation ".
Tim
This leaves NO human oder going through the woods/fields. It really does make sense.
06-16-2008 | 05:46 AM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,102
Likes: 0
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
06-16-2008 | 05:57 AM
#49
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 0
From: Mont County, Pa
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: tsoc
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
06-16-2008 | 06:40 AM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
From: Pingree Grove, IL
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in
Everything you said is exactly accurate. You know his ways, no doubt.Jim is quite well off and actually chooses who hunts with him. He has hunters who have hunted as many as 8 years in a row (regulars). He doesn't worry at all about bookings.If he likes the way you carry yourself, you'll be invited back, if he doesn't, you'll need to find another place to hunt. He makes that more than clear.
ORIGINAL: tsoc
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp.
It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control.
You can book fully guided rut hunts for 3k in Pike County, Illinois which is the #2 Boon and Crockett producer and likely be allowed to hunt your way with better odds of getting a solid P&Y or Booner than what I am seeing up there in Alberta. Just a little food for thought considering this thread started off because you were not fully satisfied in what your experience was. I would say if you took what you learned from Jim Hole and applied it to another area that you would have some great success and maybe more happiness in your hunt. Just a little food for thought from the Land of Lincoln