RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

They tried this in Oregon in the steens mountains for several years. 4 point or better [western count] it seemed that alot of big 3 points were shot and the hunting really wasnt that much better. Some of our elk hunts have a cow or 3 point or better rule. I am not too proud to take a doe or a cow.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

No, large racks are not the most important aspect of hunting. Developement and participation of our youth in bowhunting is very important. My son has taken two deer, his first one was a spike buck and the second was a doe. It took him two years of hunting to take his first deer. I was very proud of him and his efforts that it took to take those deer.
In my opinion, for new hunters, especially young hunters, it is very discouraging to hunt year after year and not take a deer. That spike buck got my son involved and excited about hunting. I remember being in his shoes (hunting boots).
Dont get me wrong, I like seeing big bucks and have taken my fare share of them.
As for me, as I have become older, I have imposed my own restriction. I let the smaller bucks walk in hopes that they will become a shooter. I do take does for meat and because there are so many of them. But, I have no problem with my son taking a small buck that I let walk. At least he is hunting and being involved in this great sport.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

I think what Pa, Ar & other states are doing with restrictions are good ideas. Here in WV there aren' t any, it' s pretty much up to the hunter. In WV we are allowed to take too many bucks in the first place, it' s turned into a $$$$ thing with the extra tags you can purchase. As long as the insurance companies & farm groups have there say in WV you won' t see any restrictions either. They want numbers.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

The point restrictions wouldn' t make much difference to me because I have a self-imposed buck restriction of 8 points or better. I passed up numerous bucks of 6 points or less this year--most of which were under 10 yards away broadside and relaxed with nothing in between. Since nothing met my standards, I let them all pass and ended the season with 2 does and a button buck I thought was a doe.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

I think the key is getting more hunters to take does. I say offer cheaper and more doe tags if you want to balance the herd. The only think I see ar' s as doing is increasing the size of a bucks antlers.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

I have been a pennsylvania hunter for 22 years and I feel that the antler restrictions this past season were great. It' s not just about getting big antlers but our buck to doe ratio is terrible. In the past once deer season was over very few and I mean very few bucks survived to grow for next year. This year I noticed that in our rifle season we would put on small deer drives and for the whole two weeks we saw bucks, alot of bucks that would have all been taken without antler restrictions. In January and February I have been seeing bucks and that has never happened before. I never understood why taking a small spike buck was any better than taking a big doe. In my opinion the doe is better eating then the buck anyway. I sure that every part of Pa is different but here in northeast Pa the hunting pressure is very high and without restrictions all the bucks are being harvested. I heard several people say that they had to let a buck pass because they could not tell if it had enough points. I think that makes the hunting even more of a challenge not to mention alot safer and ethical then people just shooting at running deer because they see any size horns.. Just my 2 cents worth...

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Deer management is made of many things but one goal is to keep buck to doe ratios in line, which is take does obviously. Another key part is to manage the buck maturity level...it does have QAM or TBM benefits, but ultimately it is to stregthen the herd. Yes a trophy spike will have the genetics but how do you know what is a trophy and what is cull in spike stage, etc? I have yet to be able to tell what 1 1/2 will be a hawg and which one will not...can any of you? The problem with harvesting anything with bone is, the young are most vunerable (so they are harvested in higher numbers), the mature will always be targeted and pressured by self imposed-restriction hunters (everybody else to boot) and the old will die or non factor. Pressure, stress and lack of food cause mortality in mature bucks post breeding, one way to ensure adequate numbers & ratio is to have the next ones alive and strong (protected). The pay off is more 2 1/2 year olds, potential if TBM or QAM is your thing is more evident, equal opportunity, stronger herds and more relief for the matures (as well more replacements that will fight for the right to breed of those who died or were harvested). I have heard hunters who are so proud just to shoot a buck...horns don' t matter...but if he' s got nuts then " I' m a hunter" , why not shoot a doe. Can you tell me why you think harvesting a young, immature buck is necessary? Is it just because you don' t like to be told what to harvest, is it you don' t like the trophy hunters...what? It(harvesting does) is as good meat, close to the same amount of meat,is doing yourself and your kids a favour.

I do understand the point that somebody mentiond earlier about youth or first timers. But with the ample doe limits and population available, that void can be filled. If they grow up with a AR rule, I doubt they will fight with it, it is the ones who never had the rules that bark the loudest. Are their not other aspects to this sport beside the notching of the tag? ( I bet if you pool most avid hunters the actual harvest isn' t at the top of the list) I for one thing it is good to teach the aspect of patience and knowing what you are shooting at, if you have to count points to ensure legal...does it not make for more ethical, thought out shots (not so much panic shots, etc.)

BTW,To me all harvests should be treated with joy and great accomplishments.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

I' m not in favor of antler restrictions.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

skeet,

your points are valid, but you still go back to antlers and age!

A doe is just as much of a trophy as my ram bar none! the feeling isnt any different. The meat, although may taste different is still the finest table fare out there compared to what most kids are eating for lunch (gasp).

We talk strength in the heard, or I should say having a healthy herd.

Do you think that just because there are not a ton of 2 1/2 yr old deer running around the herd is not healthy?

I ask if this is so why are the numbers such a problem today.

Right now, as we speak on the grounds of the spring of 2003, a good handful of the states are overrun with deer, both rural and urban areas. Its not health, its not age, its pure and simple numbers...the hole famn dang thing! Plain and simple, shoot more deer! Its either that or institute your AR' s but when you ask the majority the main reason they want it, it all boils down to one thing, seeing and possibly shooting more mature bucks. It has nothing to do with health. Folks dreaming of a 5000 acre ranch in Tx and trying to turn the hole state into it. Again, its a sad to see fish and game do this.

I am sure we all are familiar with " slot limits" . You know fishing, one over a certain number, up to x amount within a high and low number, and nothing under x.

If we as deer hunters are so worried about health, we would let the hosses run. They are the genetically strong. But no, these are what ALL folks dream of getting. Meat hunter or not I know of none (I am sure there is a couple that my stick to this but when the chips are down and mr 200pt P&Y is standing broadside quartering away 15 yards, I bet 99.8% fire!) Are they meat hunters, quite frankly, who isnt!

Did you know at one point in time, elephants with tusks over 40 pounds were not allowed to be shot due to the the thought of a producing a healthy heard.

I can humor you with more in many different species of this same or very similar Antler Restriciton " THEORY" which so far has in my opinion only proved RIGHT in ONE case....SHEEP!

and last but not least I ask you all this...

Minus CWD of course, how are your deer herds, I bet 85% of the states with whitetails will say over run, habitat distruction etc etc. Are you willing to encounter more disease and more problems (ie WI insurance companys ready to sue F&G for not managing the herds properly, and do you think it will end there? and or seeing, or knowing folks dying, possible serious injury, or as most of us have seen or know of major damage in many forms due to TO MANY ANIMALS?) Just for the sake of having more 6 pointers plus running around the woods to have a " HEALTHY" herd?

I am and always will be in favor of sound fish and wildlife practices, I have yet to see anything sound in this!!!

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Just acouple of additional notes....

This may not be the best method to achieve the desired results in PA, but it is a valid attempt.
I would be interested in seeing the method that New Jersey has implemented...earn a buck. You must harvest a doe to get a buck tag.


Also, our youth hunters in PA do not have to follow the new program, they may still harvest bucks under the old regs. One spike at least 3" in length.