RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Having hunted PA. for over 30 years I dont like them. There is no hard concrete evidence to suggest that they are needed. How many of the good Dr. Alt would have supported them without him holding up the big rack at his dog and pony show? All antler restrictions were for was the carrot to dangle in front of the people to get herd reduction in.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Not being from PA I' m watching closely. I figure in a couple years there will be a lot of nice racks running around. I haven' t hunted in PA for a couple years. As soon as you get all the big ones growing I' m comin' bowhuntin' .:D:) I can be in PA in about 30 minutes.:D

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Dale,PA, Alt showing a big rack may have influenced some people. That I cannot argue, as I can`t read minds!:D

It did not get me all hot and bothered, it wasn`t that big. Big for PA, but that is all.

In your neck of the woods, you may not have too many deer, but in my area we have WAY too many.

In some areas herd reduction is undoubtedly needed. In other areas maybe not.

I can`t argue that we probably need smaller deer management units. Hopefully that will come at a not so far distant date.

But you gotta take the first step on any journey, if you are ever going to get there.


BTW, Alt never denied lowering the total herd. My own personal opinion is that we should carry in the neighborhood of 800,000-1,000,000 deer statewide. That is a pretty big reduction. Granted, some areas may not need thinned down. Hopefully that will be taken care of.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

well,this is certainly a hot topic.I hunt in MS.We have been under AR of 4 point(total) since 1995.Up to that point we had way too many deer and way too many immature bucks.Probably 65% of the 1 1/2 old bucks were killed every year.Since the ar went into effect we have seen the number of mature bucks increase in the deer heard.The % of 4.5 year old bucks harvested has increased 300%.We see a harder more defined rut.We have also aggresively shot does during this time.So,has it been a success.yes if you look at the % of mature bucks in the herd.Now, the size or quality of these bucks has' nt changed much.There are just more of them.Rack size is limited by soil quality and lack of agriculture in many areas.In places with better habitat the effects may be more pronounced.I do believe that we have a more balanced age structure now which is better for the health of the deer heard.Will ar' s produce massive numbers of trophy bucks.That depends on soil quality,genectics etc.I do believe that it has helped our deer herd.I think having the proper age structure is important and from that aspect it has been a plus.The real downfall to ar' s is that your real" trophy" bucks get killed early. Because of their antler development they are legal as 1 1/2 old deer.While many inferior deer are passed up because of the ar.

CB

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Dale/PA,
I was unable to get to any of the meetings, and I still think AR is a worthy cause and a just idea. Anyone that sees a rack being held up by a spokesman should know better than to think thoses results happen overnight.....besides, it' s a fact that antlers will get bigger with age....and nutrition, etc....why does everyone see it as QAM just because the deer get to grow up?

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Jason I was never one to worry about what was on a deers head. In my opinion way to many people do that. If the deer was taken fair chase and ethically it shouldnt matter wether it was a spike,doe or a trophy buck. Why is it that some people think there is only one way to do things is beyond me. I like some of the things being done now but as for the others well lets wait and see.As I stated before there is no concrete evidence that AR. was needed.Even Dr. Alt has said he isnt sure what is needed. All that is going on now is one big experiment and the deer herd in Pa is the guinea pig.
BTW herd reduction isnt needed in my area thats for sure. I can show you areas with great habitat and not that many deer. The way it was done the past year ws a joke.Just blanket the state with doe tags and have at it yep real sound deer management there.For the record i have taken wat more does than bucks so I dont have a problem taking does just not the way they want to do it.
As for the new WMUS well lets say they arent the greatest either. My county gets cut into 4 pieces> my camp is one my house and where i do most of my doe hunting another and the game lnads i hoped to start to get to know better in bow thid yet another. Now the odds of me getting tags for all is slim to almsot none so I guess you could say I dont like them either.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Cajonhunter,

Great to hear you positive experiences!

One thing though...
It has been proven that the size of the rack for a yearling buck does not determine level of quality. Trophy ranches are now not shooting their " inferior" bucks until they reach 2.5, and mostly 3.5 years of age. You just cannot tell what they will be until that age. 400 yearlings followed in TX, as well as similiar studies in PA and Gorgia, have shown the average 3.5 year old that started as a spike, 4pt, or 8pt, to be virtually equal at 3.5 years of age, on average. In fact, the spikes were slightly higher in the 3rd year TX study-close to even, but still it showed that you can' t tell until they are older.

Just a thought too. What is inferior? I shot an " inferior" 3.5 year old 9pt in WI this year that scored 119. Most of the good 3.5 year olds in the area are usually 130 to 150. My buck was inferior, but I' ll enjoy looking at my " inferior" buck on the wall when I get him back from the taxidermist.

You have just as much chance shooting a superior buck as a yearling spike, as you do a yearling 8 pt.

Jeff...U.P. of Michigan.

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

Let me rephrase my comments a little.The inherent problem with AR' s is something bioligists refer to as high grading.That is a deer with superior genetics who gets proper nutrition will develop a set of branched antlers as a 1 1/2 old.This deer is fair game because even as a young deer he has antlers greater than the AR.Not that the other deer are " inferior" per say, they may eventually grow nice antlers.it' s just that the deer who have the most potential are shot earlier because of their rack size.My experience from this has been that not every deer who gets to maturity will have a " trophy" rack.Some will, some won' t.Habitat and genetics,mostly habitat are the determining factors.Look at Illinois and the monsters they grow there.I don' t care what kind of ar we have here we will never have deer like in Illinois.The MS delta produces some nice bucks,but on the piney wood loes type soil,no way.Overall it has been a positive because we have more mature deer in the population.However I think some people here were under the asumption that if you let bucks get a few years on them we would be killing monster bucks.It just has' nt happened here because of habitat limitaions.Now some of the people I hunt with have unrealistic expectations.They are getting to the point were they don' t want you to shoot a buck unless it' s a " trophy" .My solution is too shoot mature 3.5 to 4.5 year old bucks.Some may have nice racks, some may not.FWIW my son killed a 8 pt 15" spread 18" beams,4" bases.Nice buck.He was aged to be 8 years old.We' ve killed some 4.5' s with similar racks.Point being that age alone won' t grow big racks.

CB

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

My feelings? More trophy hunter garbage.

JRW

RE: antler restrictions, Your Fellings.
 

JRW,

Don' t jump on the " Trophy Management" garbage bandwagon, without knowing the facts.

QDM only looks to protect YEARLING Bucks, not 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 5.5, 6.5,7.5, and up. Huge difference!! Also, QDM looks at protecting roughly 80% of the yearling age class in your area, with total disregard to supposed inferiority or not.

Protecting yearling bucks is the first piece of the philosophy.

2nd: Populations maintained below the carrying capacity of the land.

3rd: Promotion of adequate sex ratios.

That' s it, that' s QDM. Big diffence from " Trophy Management" . Alt promotes QDM, not TDM.

This philosophy is no diffent than how fish are managed, many places for elk out west, or 50" minimum moose restrictions in AK. No different. Improve where they live, improve what they eat, and balance populations by sex and age structure. It all boils down to health. Health of the herd, and health of the habitat.

Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
Protection of yearling bucks + Populations maintained below the carrying capacity of the land + Adequate buck:doe ratios = QDM