Charlie P , sorry if I missed any questions to me, I'll try answer them all.


" What's wrong with being able to shoot well in a short peroid of time? "

Hmm, well nothing I suppose if you are wanting to become as efficent as quickly as possible - and that would be rifle hunting. Archery I believe is not meant to be learned in two afternoons, do you ?

"How much more tech. advanced is today's recurves compared to the ones that were used 20 years ago?"

Good question - and to tell you the truth, I don't think a whole lot really. Compare the advances compared to the compound - there is no comparison, is there ?

" The bow you carry doesn't have anything to do with your skills in the woods.Can anyone argue that point?"

Yes I can - I would take a 35 yard shot at a deer with a compound anyday (the RIGHT shot) but I would not take anything more than 15-20 yards with my longbow. My shooting skills are greatly enhanced with a compound.

" Shouldn't you have stated that it's more rewarding for you? Or do you think it would be mpore rewarding for everyone? I don't think it would be."

Everyone has their own rewards in hunting, I will not pretend differently. But lines have been drawn, and we are quesioning these lines, are we not ?

"getting within 30-40 yards is the challenge, not the shooting of the bow itsself.

Am I way off here ?

Thats what I said, and your answer was maybe ? You tell me - restric yourself to 30 yard shots with a rifle and see if it doesn't become much more difficult. See ? Its NOT the closeness in itsself, but the type of equipment along with the skills of getting close. That was my point.

" Are you saying that all trad hunters are more dedicated shooters then guys that shoot compounds?"

Maybe, I dunno, haven't been around a lot of trad shooters. On this board, we all tend to be dedicated. IN the real world, many bowhunters are not fit to hunt IMO because of their lack of shooting ability, be it trad or compound.

Your turn Charlie P -

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Hmm, well nothing I suppose if you are wanting to become as efficent as quickly as possible - and that would be rifle hunting. Archery I believe is not meant to be learned in two afternoons, do you ?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

No,That is not rifle hunting not even close.
I also don't think you could teach someone to be efficient enough with a compound to hunt in two afternoons.Hitting a target and hunting are alot different.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Yes I can - I would take a 35 yard shot at a deer with a compound anyday (the RIGHT shot) but I would not take anything more than 15-20 yards with my longbow. My shooting skills are greatly enhanced with a compound <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

What about your tracking,scouting and overall deer hunting skills are they changed by the bow you carry? These are the skills I was talking about and I think you knew that.

The shooting limit you mentioned is yours,right.What about guys like Bear and Hill that routinely shot deer at long distances with trad and recurves.What about the guys that I have talked with on the bowsite that shoot game at 30 yards with a longbow/recurve?

You keep mentioning this 30-40 yard distance with compounds.I don't feel this is close to the average distance most deer are shot at with compound bows.Last year I posted a question on a different site&quot;Your average distance&quot; it was close to 20 yards(about 100 reponses to the thread).I routinely see compound shooters berate other hunters for taking shots over 30 yards as being unethical.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>restric yourself to 30 yard shots with a rifle and see if it doesn't become much more difficult. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

You lost me here, more difficult then what? To be honest I have never even shot a rifle,I can't legally use one where I hunt.Shotgun with a slug is what I know.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Why not a draw loc if it makes the bowhunter a better shot ? Please elaborate.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I feel a bow should be held back by the individual shooting it.Yes, I feel that includes a release.The release is connected to the shooter,when the arm comes foward so does the string.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Does accuracy not increase distance <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

For me it doesn't.I can't speak for anyone else.I shoot alot better then I did when I started bow hunting,I still won't take shots over 25 yards.The places I hunt you really couldn't if you wanted to.If this was true why isn't the average distance for kills for compound shooters 45-55 yards.I shoot the NFAA course at our club(for Fun)I shoot pretty good out to 60 yards.Wouldn't think of trying it in the woods.

I agree with your last comment about many people that carry bows into the woods.

I was talking about deer hunting, it wouldn't be right to deer hunt with a light.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

Charlie P., sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I had to go do some shooting and then came home to work on a couple of tweaks my bow needed. Tweaking...the one thing I hate about compounds.

You asked how techies flaunt their technology in the face of trads. I've seen it on this thread. If trads should voice their disagreement with the proliferation of technology, what are they met with? Sarcasm. Insults. You, yourself, have made a somewhat derogatory comment about fedora hats and shooting ability.

Have you ever shared a camp with a traditional bowhunter or have you just seen the 'drugstore cowboy' type trads at 3D shoots? One thing you have to say for them is that they are out there, shooting, practicing and gaining experience. As long as they hang in, learn and try hard, there is hope that they will blossom into true shooters.

At least they are not sitting on the couch at home, waiting for opening day to drag their cobweb draped bow out of the corner of the closet like far too many conventional 'bowhunters' do.

Most trads won't take a hunting shot over 20 yards. Many, even closer than that. For them to get a shot at game within their comfort zone, they have to be better hunters (or downright lucky) to make up for their lack of shooting skill. And being that close, they have to know the absolute best time to draw because there is no draw and hold till the deer decides to step on past that tree. It really is a whole nuther ball game the trads are playing compared to someone with all the doodads.

The thing is, they are successful at their game. Being successful with minimal equipment makes them question why anyone else needs all this stuff we've got these days. I've been basically a traditional shooter all my life, even before there was such a thing as trad. Now, I have to shoot mostly compounds (I like to refer to them as my orthopedic bows<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>), and I have to say, based on 40 years of hunting experience, that a lot of this stuff is a waste of money.

When Lilhunter eluded to gadgetry and ethics/dedication, what I think he was really getting at is another aspect of hunting. Ethics and dedication have no relationship to gear. If it were otherwise, then there isn't a dedicated, ethical rifle hunter in the world, and we know that would be an absurd thing to say.

What I believe he meant is that gadgetry tries to be a store bought substitute for woodsmanship. Not in every instance, perhaps, but I believe that is the case, more often than not.

One of the basic founding principles of bowhunting is testing our woodsmanship and hunting skills against our quarry. When you try to take away from that, you're chipping away at the foundations of the sport.

dang, its glad that someone else knows what I ment besides myself <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>!

Two seasons now I have gone without killing a deer, I am sitting in that tree with about 2000.00 dollars worth of Gadgetry,but yet you get up in the morning and hear of some 10 year old killing his first buck with his ole mans handed down Bow!

SO I say no! its just getting more expensive!

heck thats ah ole nother topic Rico LOL!

Stealthycat

&quot;Anyway, my point is that the easier something becomes, the less dedication you have to practice it. Am I not right ?

BTbowhunter - &quot; I'm against devices that make night hunting possible and I'm against crossbows or the gadgets that hold a bow at full draw.&quot;

But explain WHY you feel that way.&quot;

Look above at your own quote as to why I'm against the crossbows. As for the night stuff, I think that's self explanatory too.



Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/22/2002 07:20:08

What is basically happening here is Stealthycat is playing the Devil's advocate.

We all have beliefs specifically in what is fair in terms of equipment. Certain lines are drawn and we build justifications in our own minds as to why one piece of equipment is &quot;fair&quot; and &quot;ethical&quot; and another is not.

All Stealthy is doing is questioning our beliefs about those &quot;lines&quot; that have we all have drawn...nothing more.

I have two comments though. What happens when the day comes when a person isn't allowed to use a particular weapon unless they can become proficient with it at a given distance within a week's time?

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

How would it feel if someone said &quot;You can't use a long bow or recurve because it takes too much time to master&quot; ? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I think that is the way that alot of the compound shooters are interpretating some of the posts on here.....as a personal attack.

Second, Arthur P...I didn't miss that &quot;challenge&quot; in one of your earlier posts.

I accept.

With one exception....

...it isn't an 80 meter-fixed distance shoot....it is a 3D shoot with unmarked distances out to 50 yards....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>[<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

hey ya'll! I want to be nominated for the guy that started a topic
with the most reply