If a trad hunter shoots at a range couldn't his choice of equipment hinder him as a hunter.The extra ten hours he puts in shooting a week I use in the woods scouting.So he could end up being a more dedicated archer and a less dedicated hunter,right.

Charlie, np on the Glenn St Charles..also who knows why we have our own little place...heck I dont care what ya shoot (stated that before!) I also learn as much here as I do there, although it would be nice to see the equipment posts in there perspective boards (techinical stuff on the tech board and trad stuff on the trad boards)

No the equipment doesnt make a person more or less ethical, to heck if I can figure where ya got that one from......

I hear ya Pa...the human error factor sucks LOL! but if thats the only case, then why not crossbows? It really doesnt answer the question of what is really considered bowhunting and where to do you draw the line between advancements taking away from the sport of bowhunting and archery (sorry using crossbows as an example here but it could just about be anything)and turn it more into cross bow hunting? There is still human error. Heck if the drawing whent he animal is around they can make it where there is no loaded crossbows unless and animals is around making it so you must cock the sucker 15ft of up tree, load it, then try and shoot, if thats what you consider bowhunting, drawing when the animal is near. I still dont buy all the gizmos. I do understand having many different things to some extent to find one that fits you, be it releases, rests, strings, silencers, what ever.

Longbowman..I cant agree more when it comes to the proficency. Here is one for your to ponder though. Those shots on the 3d courses....it is hunting practice aint it (well thats why I go, to heck with winning or loosing or what standings I come in). First, do you practice your strengths or weaknesses? Second, max effective range and taking only high % shots...there are more then a few shots at the local 3d shoots I sure as heck wouldnt take at something with hide or hair on it, shot angles, to far distances, overhanging branches what ever..some of those shots are just down right nutz but they sure are fun to PRACTICE ON and have a good time...and you dang right I miss a few of them LOL! I am sure though you have noticed the trad stakes are a little different set up then the wheel stakes, in MOST cases from what I have been to in the lower 48 and Ak.

hey Buckmagnet..ya ever try preditor hunting...oh wait, thats a big flood light..heck whats the difference <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>!

you see here, I dont disagree that technology isnt a bad thing! Not one bit! But I do see it going to far....POSSIBLY in the future! It really has redifined the term archery and the term bowhunting. To me who cares right, that is why I choose the weapon I do...what about those that dont. Those non hunters...I cant honestly vouch for them because one of them I am not, but think about it. They see you as Rambo running with your exploding heads, then all of a sudden a proposal to your fish and game dept comes up to can bowhunting...its must more fuel for the fire (image issues, thought there was a post on that not long ago also). I am not saying laser everything isnt bad, heck some folks cant hit the dang ground they walk on with a 5ft stabalizer! I do understand that..not everyone has the god given talent or desire to be good that the rest of us do....what chaps my ARSE is when folks lump us trad folks in to that poke and hope, wounding kaotic, basically lack of respect to the animal, groups! Sorry man this fella aint one of them and I know many many others who are good at what they do also! I also try and not get serious pushin trad on anyone..I do however poke at my friends for shooting wheels as much or less then they poke at me for my purdy arrows and stickbows!


Not to mention taking scores. They prove only that you are proficent on a stinking target range...what does that prove! Not a damn thing. I know many BOWHUNTERS both trad and wheelie folks who cant hit the broadside of a barn when critters get near, heck some of them cant even draw there dang bows at the moment of truth! Ya wanna see a good laugh, watch that one once, you both will be laughing so hard you'll dang near die from it! I also dont believe in the theory that &quot;I cant shoot good on tragets (be it 3d or paper) and I am robin hood on animals&quot;! Thats a bunch of BS imo! They may not be good at it but they sure as heck dont hit them in the hindquarters, then miss, then graze the neck, then pokem in the belly! Sorry charlie, I dont by that one!

last but not least, Charlie, that last statement, shooting taking away from us being a hunter. Quite frankly I dont think it matters where or what you are doing to better yourself if its proficency, stalking, learning critters, what ever, you are and will always add to your basket of tricks on becoming a better hunter. I think trad folks enjoy shooting more though, thats more of the reason I practice almost every day be it in the house or in the range. Just to pull my bow back a couple times and zing an arrow across the living room and watch the cat go mach 5 to the bed room always causes a snicker (sorry bad humor <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>!). Seriously though I do believe that. Where wheelie folks become more complacent. I mean in all reality, why practice when you can shoot circles around everyone else right? Plus I learn quite a bit at the range, sometimes even about critters as they come strolling by once in awhile be it sandhills, ducks, owls, moose, fox, whatever, not to mention talking and listening to the storys of the other folks at the range. So imo I cant say spending more time at a range becoming proficent with your weapon makes you (or gives anyone else) added or lack of advantages/disadvantages..its all about practicing weakness's. The moment of truth is when your strengths come out, atleast for me!


Edited by - Lilhunter on 01/21/2002 19:51:22

hey charlie, you never did answer my ealier question LOL! Btw stop twisting my writings for what they are not (ie. not implying anything by asking a question)! It was just a question:
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> these came from 2 different posts. Its bascially the same question you asked in a nut shell albeit completely different. Yes you have to draw the bow (for now, who knows what will happen in 10 15 or 20 years from now) but where do you put an end to more gadgets to make it easier instead teaching more dedication and ethics? (seperate question). <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Instead of trying to find new stuff to better the wind direction, teaching the new folks how and what to do.....heck the more brains we have together the more accomplishments/advancements folks will think of! I am pretty sure we would both agree those two, dedication and ethics, are more important then any gizmo/gadget we or anyone else could think of!

btw you never did responed to Mr Rook and what I had to say...granted its my theory but it sure as heck makes a ton of sense! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>!

Also, you werent very impressed with Glenn St. Charles eh?

Lil,I did answer your question
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I don't think it will ever just become shooting.Not as long as there is a human elelment involved. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

As far as Mr.Rook goes I asked you if his enjoyment came solely from the bow he shot,not if he liked it better.

To answer your question I don't know.

As far as twisting your words I didn't.You did that yourself. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>but where do you put an end to more gadgets to make it easier instead teaching more dedication and ethics? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

This was much more then a question, it is a statement.

No I wasn't impressed with Mr St. Charles not at all.I tried finding the article but failed sorry.

I've watched this thread for the past couple of days...I've read each reply with interest...I'm not sure why I am even bothering to respond I can't add much more to the discussion...but a few thoughts have occured back in the cob-webbed crevasses of my small brain...I'll give my answer up front so some of you won't have to read any further, no, things are currently not to sophisticated in our beloved sport of bowhunting.

From reading the preceeding posts it would seem that I am way out of my league in my bowhunting endeavors. What other conclusion can I come to except that I suck as a bowhunter. Not counting elk hunting, scouting, hanging stands, practicing, testing, checking out as many new gadgets that I can get my greedy little hands on, I spent a portion of about 80 days last season, hunting whitetails from a tree stand at various locations around this great country of ours.

Let's see, I have a laser rangefinder, a camcorder, a number of compound bows, a &quot;state-of-the-art&quot; drop away rest, Tritium pin sight, carbon arrows, almost every different kind of broadhead you can imagine...both fixed and expandable, a humpteen dozen deer calls of all shapes and sizes, different steps to get up a tree...everything from ladders to screw in steps, tree stands galore (always think the next one I buy might be the best ever! ). I try to outfit myself with the lastest in clothing also. Scentloc liner, More camo combinations than I can wear in a season. Insulated coats and bibs for the cold weather, non-insulated stuff for the warm weather. All kinds of boots and then all kinds of storage bins to try and keep all these things scent free when not in use. I could continue with this barrage of gadgets and gear but I think you have had enough.


I remember when carbon suits first came out the manufacturer made a remark to a friend of mine something to the effect that He was afraid DNR agencies across the country would bring legislation against his product because deer could no longer smell the hunter, giving him an unfair advantage. (This was before the &quot;new improved product&quot. Guess what, it didn't happen. In fact although I'm sure it makes a difference, I have a hard time seeing much of a distinction in the reaction of game with or without the suit when I have done my part with scent control.

I heard the same comment from a manufacturer of a certain ground blind years ago. He made it sound like the blind would almost attract deer.....NOT. It was so hard to set up in fact we quit using it.

I read once where a game warden made the comment that with the new Gamefinder, it would give the hunter an unfair advantage because he would know where &quot;every rabbit in the woods was.&quot; Sorry...NOT! I have talked face to face with the inventor on two different occasions and have yet to see anyone use it effectively in the field.

That being said, there have been occasions where I have located a bedded buck. I know his location, and I know the terrain, but I still have no chance to get an arrow to him. Either the wind is wrong, no cover, or the approach to him is not conducive to a silent stalk. Unless they invented something that made me silent and invisible, I had no chance. Don't get me wrong, I will still make an attempt(gadgets and all), but it is no contest.

(Does this MB contribute to the sophistication? The sharing of information is certainly a big advantage for us hunters!)


Simply put, for all these sophisticated, new fangled gadgets, that I have, I harvest a miniscule amount of deer. Granted, I look for a particular animal, nevertheless, from what I am reading, even with all the help I get from modern technology I am way behind the times! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

P.S. I wish someone would invent something to help me carry all these sophistications to my treestand! <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

sorry dude, you were the one trying to imply something with a question I simple asked!

Antler eater, You want to go hunting.lol

Lil, Whatever.Have a good one.

yuppers, you to! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>!

Just because the technology exists, doesn't mean you have to use it. Many hunters choose more primitive methods to challenge themselves. Even with the most advanced technology, there will still be some using this new technology and many of them will still be challenged to get a kill.

I think part of the problem comes from hunters not wanting to see other groups of hunters taking more game and leaving less for them. If everyone is forced to hunt with a selfbow and homemade arrows, then only the super dedicated will take big game. More trophies for them. Otherwise, so what if someone with lesser talents and abilities decides to take an animal with a method more in line with their skills.

Wow, this thread has sure gotten interesting. There have been some statements that made me bite my tongue and some that made me chuckle. All in all a real good thread. Thanks to bogobble for starting it off.

All I can add is, unless you feel the passion and love for archery, your weapon and the flight of the arrow that I do, nothing I can say to you will help you to understand exactly why I put as much dedication and time into my shooting as I do, or why I prefer to use my own GOD given talents and practiced skills instead of something that was made to artificially enhance or replace them. We are after all, doing this thing called archery and bowhunting for a variety of different reasons. What it all boils down to is, no matter what you hunt with from a bare bones selfbow to the most advanced bow loaded up with all the gizmos, have fun, shoot em straight and make meat. Oh, and if you happen to fall in love with a sexy little recurve or feel a yearning to actually be able to see your arrow as it spins and arches it's way to the intended target, be forwarned, you'll be starting on a journey that is never ending and addicting as all heck.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>