Stealthy,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Yes, a person CAN achieve good groups in twop afternoons <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I agree with this.I think that is a good thing.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Can they shoot live deer ? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

No way.I also feel the same way about a trad guy that shoots for a year from set distances and is getting the hang of it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>and the fact that a person can get overconfident with easy to use, high tech equipment. Is that the reason for 30-40 % of the &quot;I hit a deer a lost it&quot; threads this past fall ?
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Overconfidence= Bad. Confidence= good.You like the 30-40 number don't you? 30-40 yard shots 30-40%.lol I don't agree again I know your shocked.I don't believe that these deer were lost because the shooter was overconfident.Things happen.

What is the reason for deer lost by trad hunters?Shooting ability?

I stated that I don't have a problem with someone hunting with a crossbow during a mixed season.ML/CB/B or ML/CB they can use the draw loc at the same time.Not in the archery only season.I stated my reason for this.It's a personal thing and not really debateable.So I guess I don't &quot;see&quot;.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Woodsmen skills are not impacted by your choice of weapon, however your choice of weapon will impact how well your skills will have to be, right ?
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Let's say that the average shot with a compound is 26 yards and with trad gear its 15 yards.How much less do my skills have to be to get that deer 11 yards further away?

How much do I shoot. I'll be totally honest after the season I put the bow away for a couple of monthes.I'm Walleye fanatic too.I fish out of a boat until the ice is on ,then ice fish.

When I start scouting for Turkey I carry my bow and stump shoot.When it warms up a bit I'll start walking the NFAA course.3 times a week,it's alot of fun.

Our bow Season starts Oct.15 .I do alot of Salmon fishing on Ontario until the end of August.From Sept 1 through bow season I shoot just about every day.From treestands and from the ground at unknown distances.

You make referance to the &quot;lost deer threads&quot; compared to the number of guys hunting deer on this site I think the amount of lost deer threads are small.Not many people start a thread&quot;I got my deer in 20 yards&quot; I wonder how many would fill the board if people did.

Hopefully every hunter who lost one regardless of weapon choice will learn something from it.I feel lack of tracking skills is more to blame then overconfidence in equipment.

Stealthy, one thing I'm sure of is you love this sport.Another is as long as their are people as passionate about it as myself,you,lilhunter,Pa,ArthurP and the others that frquent this board our sport will live on.No matter what tech. does.

AHHH, this is leading around to a crossbow debate, aint it ? I think thats exactly right - in general because crossbows are easier to use, and easier to master and accurate to 25-30 yards, that people use them irresponsibly. Same could be said of gun hunters, but guns are much easier to use and more accurate than crossbows, though the wounding rate is still higher than it should be.

Back to the question at hand - technology does make deer hunting easier, but at the same time I think hunters set higher goals too. Bigger bucks, more meat, etc etc and I think this hurts hunting.

&quot;
Overconfidence= Bad. Confidence= good.You like the 30-40 number don't you? 30-40 yard shots 30-40%.lol I don't agree again I know your shocked.I don't believe that these deer were lost because the shooter was overconfident.Things happen.

What is the reason for deer lost by trad hunters?Shooting ability?

Yes, bad shots happen, but remember the thread I started about the terrible shooting stats that people were reporting ? I cannot find that topic, but it was like 36 shots, 6 kills, 10 wounds and 20 misses. I cannot remember exactly, but it was not good stats. Are you telling me all those failed shots were just one of those things ? No, people were taking bad shots, people were using equipment they weren't fully attuned to, their equipment was not tuned, sloppy shooting, a myriad of things but the least of which would be &quot;it just happened&quot;. Heck, I missed a doe at 12 steps myself, shot over her back with my compound, but I waited a LONG time for the right shot. Using high tech equipment, bone busting head, high KE bows make people think they can take a marginal shot. No or yes ?

&quot; Let's say that the average shot with a compound is 26 yards and with trad gear its 15 yards.How much less do my skills have to be to get that deer 11 yards further away?

Not much I think, but your shooting skills with a compound compared to that of a recurve/longbow WOULD be a huge difference. When you shoot a deer with a compound, i bet you try to draw when the deers looking away, or head behind a tree, and hold your draw until it step into a good shot, right ? You cannot do that with a longbow/recurve, maybe just a couple of seconds, but not long. MUCH tougher I have found, and I have only shot on squirrels !

I have talked to traditional bow users on the trad forum, from what I heard, they don't have a problem with compound users, and they stated that the trad users who complain about compound users are just lacking skill in their shooting and trying to blame it on others.


Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>. Using high tech equipment, bone busting head, high KE bows make people think they can take a marginal shot. No or yes ?
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Inexperienced hunter yes,experienced hunter no.Don't the broadheads you use on your trad equipment have bone busting capabilities?If not how do guys hunt African game with Trad. gear.Those Wensel broadheads look like they could bust some bone to me.What's your KE on your Trad set up? Mine is about 59.


Let's look at this another way.I feel people get into traditional after using compounds don't you? So most of your trad hunters are already experienced,right.Their learning curve is huge from the compound to trad equipment,safe bet.So how do we get young kids interested in hunting with a bow using trad equipment.My son has been shooting since he was 5 yrs old.One of the big factors in his enjoyment was that he saw improvement quickly.Once again I don't see anything wrong with that.When I saw the excitement in his eyes i knew he'd be hooked.

Or is it supposed to be like in the movie &quot;Kung Fu&quot; where Cain pulled the bow back for 5 years before putting an arrow on the string.

Don't you think that the compound is a great intruductory weapon?Trad. equipment is harder to shoot,I'm in total agreement there.If all these newcomers to our sport shot trad. they would either quit or the wounding rate would be huge.Because the compound is easier to shoot doesn't mean the person using it is lazy.

Without the intruduction of the compound where would bow hunting be now.The people and the revenue that it has brought into the sport I feel has done more good then harm.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>When you shoot a deer with a compound, i bet you try to draw when the deers looking away, or head behind a tree, and hold your draw until it step into a good shot, right ? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I draw as you mentioned and then release.I draw my bow when the shot is available.I draw,aim and shoot don't really hold at full draw.

So basically the difference between my shooting style and yours is I hold less weight at full draw.

I didn't read the thread you mentioned.I can tell last year I took two deer and all three arrows I shot hit there intended mark.I hit the last one twice.Once at 10 and once at 22 paces.

Charlie P - I get a heart stopping 34 ft lbs of KE with my setup. An example if I may ? Fall of 2000 I was hunting Kansas. I had a 10 point, 150 class buck within 30-35 yards of my stand for over an hour, and when he finally came in on my trail, he was quartering to me, 20-25 steps. My setup was such that i could have killed that buck, I KNOW I could have. My shooting is good, I had Muzzy heads, i could have made that shot. But I didn't try. I wanted a better shot, and I never got one. A LOT of compound shooter would have taken that shot, and let their equipment make up for their errors. A traditional bowhunter would rarely take that shot.

We are getting into the ethics now of hunting, and how equipment ties into that. I think theres a definite relation.You do have a point on the evolution of a hunter. From guns to bows to tradional bows - isn't that the normal way to go ? I do agree that all hunters should be responsible shooters/hunters, but you aint going to get that out of a lot of people regardless. The equipment they use, like PABowhntr said, allows them to believe they have a decent chance of arrowing a deer, when in reality they are most likely to wound a deer because of lack of practice and familiarity with their equipment. As technology advances, this illusion of getting proficient with bowhunting equipment becomes more believable, doesn't it ? Get good quick with laser sights and all the gadgets. Sometimes it might work, I think often it doesn't.


20 years ago how many bowhunters ? Much fewer than today. Why that many more ? Because its easier to capitalize on the long, early seasona because the dedication to shooting doesn't have to be there - you can be good without practicing. Therein lies the problem somewhat, and its tied directly to technology i think.

Well Mr.Cat it's obvious we are going to disagree on many points.Just glad to see we could have a hot topic discussion without insults or any other garbage.

I think we have the same love for the sport just carry different weapons.

Edited by - Charlie P on 01/22/2002 13:07:56

We owe it to the animals to use the most effective archery equipment we can afford.

We owe it to the animals to be the best shots and hunters we can be with our chosen weapons. Skill, not price makes us better hunters.

Wayha,Took the words right out of my mouth.