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Situation Ethics????........2 Part Question .....**UPDATED WITH twils real life situation
#301
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
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From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
Not another hall monitor.
That's what PM's are for.
See rule 15.
See rule 15.

#302
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
Yaknow John .... this thread has really got me to face some things ..... when you asked that question, "Why is it different when the owner tells you to stay off instead of posting it?"(nice set-up, by the way[:-]) I didn't want to answer it ....... but I did, and I answered it honestly .... now I have something to think about if that situation happens to me .... at least if the deer drops out of sight ...... thank you for the challenging debate, John
Yaknow John .... this thread has really got me to face some things ..... when you asked that question, "Why is it different when the owner tells you to stay off instead of posting it?"(nice set-up, by the way[:-]) I didn't want to answer it ....... but I did, and I answered it honestly .... now I have something to think about if that situation happens to me .... at least if the deer drops out of sight ...... thank you for the challenging debate, John
Let me first say, I haven't read all of the posts...........
Ok, I'll TRY to answer these questions..(great thread BTW Tony!)
Let me first precursor this by saying I would NEVER put myself in this situation. If I KNEW the other land owner was adamant about not letting anyone on his/her property, I would stay as far away as possible. That being said here is what I would do (I think
)
Scenario #1 I wouldn't shoot, this is an easy choice for me, I'd just let the deer walk.
Scenario #2 This one isn't so easy to answer. I've never been in this situation before and hope I never will.
That being said please allow me some leeway here ok?
1. If I wasn't 100% sure how adamant the owner would be about trespassing, I would go ask if it was ok to get my deer. If he said "no" I would try to get help from the local DNR, but knowing the laws here in Illinois I know I'd be S.O.L.
2. Knowing in advance the hard fast position of the land owner, I wouldn't even go ask, (I wouldn't be there in the first place but I digress)I'd just show up at his door with the DNR to ask for permission, againthe answerwould probably still be S.O.L. but at least the DNR KNOW there is a dead deer and they would probably make the land owner jump through hoops to get it, this may just be enough for him to say "just go get it". The scenario above would give the land owner time to go get the deer and hide it before I arrived back with the DNR.
I don't think there would be a situation where I would just jump the fence, get my deer and jump back, again the operative word is "think" because I've never been in that situation. I'd like to believe I'd act accordingly.......
Again, knowing the land owner was a first grade jerk, I wouldn't be there in the first place.
To me it's simple.....it's just a deer, no matter how many points on it's head, and no deer is worth violating another man's personal rights.
Ok, I'll TRY to answer these questions..(great thread BTW Tony!)
Let me first precursor this by saying I would NEVER put myself in this situation. If I KNEW the other land owner was adamant about not letting anyone on his/her property, I would stay as far away as possible. That being said here is what I would do (I think
) Scenario #1 I wouldn't shoot, this is an easy choice for me, I'd just let the deer walk.
Scenario #2 This one isn't so easy to answer. I've never been in this situation before and hope I never will.
That being said please allow me some leeway here ok?
1. If I wasn't 100% sure how adamant the owner would be about trespassing, I would go ask if it was ok to get my deer. If he said "no" I would try to get help from the local DNR, but knowing the laws here in Illinois I know I'd be S.O.L.
2. Knowing in advance the hard fast position of the land owner, I wouldn't even go ask, (I wouldn't be there in the first place but I digress)I'd just show up at his door with the DNR to ask for permission, againthe answerwould probably still be S.O.L. but at least the DNR KNOW there is a dead deer and they would probably make the land owner jump through hoops to get it, this may just be enough for him to say "just go get it". The scenario above would give the land owner time to go get the deer and hide it before I arrived back with the DNR.
I don't think there would be a situation where I would just jump the fence, get my deer and jump back, again the operative word is "think" because I've never been in that situation. I'd like to believe I'd act accordingly.......
Again, knowing the land owner was a first grade jerk, I wouldn't be there in the first place.
To me it's simple.....it's just a deer, no matter how many points on it's head, and no deer is worth violating another man's personal rights.
Great debate and thanks for being civil........(there's that word again
)P.S.
Tony, I don't necessarily like to use "set up" questions, but sometimes not showing your hand is the best way to get your point across.
It wasn't meant to paint you in a bad light (you know that) and I appreciate your honesty, nothing wrong with your answer either. As I said, I completely see the other side of this debate and I too took some things from it to "chew on".
#303
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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From:
Very intersting debate and topic.
If said deer was gut shot on yourlandand bedded within range on posted land, would you shoot across the line for a sympathy kill? Potentially leaving your arrow on private land.
It all comes down to physically being placed in the situation, not hypothetically. A live, but certain to be dead deer, would probably have different results in the poll. Yet, the same criteria by definition of posted land is the same. As BigJ stated, everyone hopes they could make that "moral" decision of obeying the law. Yet, as Quik has posted, written law can be construed and twisted to manipulate other law. I think in this case it would come down to a conscience rule and as long as no malicious intent was done to retrieve the animal, a minimal fine might be the worst of it. I would think they would have to show an intent to trespass, shooting said animal across the line, rather than physical trespass on recovery. Don't cut the fence, tear up the land with a 4-wheeler or stop for a glass of wine in a cabin and I doubt you would face any conviction of trespass.
As for the questions at hand. I would not shoot the deer on posted land. I'd see it as more of a test for the other land owner when he sees that buck the next season on my side of the line. But I guarantee I would recover the animal, in this case a deer, I shot on legal groundthat crossed onto privatized land.Until the point of thatanimal crossing the line their is nothing wrong with my actions, I took it legally and I'll recover it wherever it lays rest. I can choose its demise, but I cannotpredetermine it's instincts of flight. As for my question, I would shoot a mortally wounded deer on private land that I initially shot on permissable land, I'd have to finalize what I started.
The sad part is, with the commercialization of hunting and the direct management of wild animals for private enterprise it's only going to get worse.
If said deer was gut shot on yourlandand bedded within range on posted land, would you shoot across the line for a sympathy kill? Potentially leaving your arrow on private land.
It all comes down to physically being placed in the situation, not hypothetically. A live, but certain to be dead deer, would probably have different results in the poll. Yet, the same criteria by definition of posted land is the same. As BigJ stated, everyone hopes they could make that "moral" decision of obeying the law. Yet, as Quik has posted, written law can be construed and twisted to manipulate other law. I think in this case it would come down to a conscience rule and as long as no malicious intent was done to retrieve the animal, a minimal fine might be the worst of it. I would think they would have to show an intent to trespass, shooting said animal across the line, rather than physical trespass on recovery. Don't cut the fence, tear up the land with a 4-wheeler or stop for a glass of wine in a cabin and I doubt you would face any conviction of trespass.
As for the questions at hand. I would not shoot the deer on posted land. I'd see it as more of a test for the other land owner when he sees that buck the next season on my side of the line. But I guarantee I would recover the animal, in this case a deer, I shot on legal groundthat crossed onto privatized land.Until the point of thatanimal crossing the line their is nothing wrong with my actions, I took it legally and I'll recover it wherever it lays rest. I can choose its demise, but I cannotpredetermine it's instincts of flight. As for my question, I would shoot a mortally wounded deer on private land that I initially shot on permissable land, I'd have to finalize what I started.
The sad part is, with the commercialization of hunting and the direct management of wild animals for private enterprise it's only going to get worse.
#304
Someone here probably already said this, I would take the shot; as far as retrieving the deer, I would re-ask the owner, maybe get a game warden to persuade the owner, and if that didn't work, I would not risk the ticket for trespassing probably. Maybe I should have not even put myself it that situation at that point, maybe I should have thought about hunting away from the owners land. Lets be honest alot of us would not react the same way we post if the situation presented itself.
#305
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 0
From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
After reading the shed thing, I thought I would resurrect thisthread for the sake of recanting my vote publicly ..... I originally =said I would get the deer that was shot on my property and fell on the neighboring property ... I now am convinvced that BigJ and, I hate saying this one
, BawanaJim are right ...... respect of someone elses rights should trump our subjective thoughts on what is right ....
, BawanaJim are right ...... respect of someone elses rights should trump our subjective thoughts on what is right ....
#307
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 0
From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
It's JUST a deer.
It's JUST a deer.
#308
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
BigJ and ,I hate saying this one
, BawanaJim are right ......
BigJ and ,I hate saying this one
, BawanaJim are right ......

#309
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 0
From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
Thats something you can count on Just Like the sun rising in the East,
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
BigJ and ,I hate saying this one
, BawanaJim are right ......
BigJ and ,I hate saying this one
, BawanaJim are right ......

#310
I'd try not to put myself in that position but if faced with it....
1.Wouldn't shoot.
2.I'd recover the deer
My Dad shot a buck once and it died on anothers property.It was close to the fence and he didn't ask for permission.Well hewas caught in the act.The owner told him he was taking the deer,soDad volunteered to gut and help drag it out.The guy declined his services and they parted ways.As far as I know there were no hard feelings on either end.The moral of the story is if your going to dance you have to pay the band.

1.Wouldn't shoot.
2.I'd recover the deer
My Dad shot a buck once and it died on anothers property.It was close to the fence and he didn't ask for permission.Well hewas caught in the act.The owner told him he was taking the deer,soDad volunteered to gut and help drag it out.The guy declined his services and they parted ways.As far as I know there were no hard feelings on either end.The moral of the story is if your going to dance you have to pay the band.













