Easy, in Iowa you could shoot across the property line, but now they changed it.

Add one word to AR and we got a deal - voluntary

Steve

I don't know David, I've never taken them......But thanks for bringing it up because that question (believe it or not) parallels my position here......indulge me.

You see it's so much easier to just hop the fence, grab your deer and go about your day than it is to take the time to find the owner and possibly have your request turned down. You'd rather cheat andbreak the lawthan to do what's right.

The same people instead of working hard, sacrificing and doing it the right way...the HARD way, well they cheated and took steroids. I decided to to it the right way knowing full well there was a good chance I wouldn't gain the strength needed to play at the next level (NFL) but I wasn't willing to just "hop the fence" I was determined to keep my dignity intact.

Well as it turned out I did make it into the NFL and I did it the right and legal way. Was it much harder? You better believe it...Harder than most would ever put themselves through but I did it and it's made me the man I am today.

That's alsowhy I can sit here and smile at your feeble attempt to belittle me. Take all the cheap shots you like they don't faze me in the least because at the end of the day, I knowwho I am.

thats just the roids talking![8D]

J/K of course, Kudos to you for being part of the what seems to be few professional atheletes not taking em.

Sorry john .... I don't understand that position ....neither do most of the people on here ...... I respect your position ... I just don't agree with it....... I think you have stretched that to unbelieveable proportions ....... I'm getting my deer ...

nope ... millions of babies die because of "OUR RIGHTS"

This country was founded on the propitiation of the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ ... it was founded so that the Puritans and Pilgrims could worship WITHOUT persecution .......

I am working to change the laws in NY, John ..... I'm on it like a fat kid on a smartie

This is even better than the whisker biscuit vs. drop-away debates. In my opinion (*and we all know what opinions are like) this is an ethics vs. legal battle and it is up to each individual to decide which is right.

eth·i·cal /ˈɛθ ɪ kəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[eth-i-kuh l] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
[/align]
–adjective
[/align]




1.


pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.



[/align]




2.


being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, esp. the standards of a profession


I think we as hunters should be ethical.


le·gal /ˈli gəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lee-guh l] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
[/align]
–adjective
[/align]




1.


permitted by law; lawful: Such acts are not legal.



[/align]




2.


of or pertaining to law; connected with the law or its administration: the legal profession.



[/align]




3.


appointed, established, or authorized by law; deriving authority from law.



[/align]




4.


recognized by law rather than by equity.


I think we as citizens should obey the law(s).
To sum up my opinion (I know, *see above), when and if I'm in a questionable situation as stated in this poll I'll do every thing that's legal to satisfy the ethics of what I'm trying to accomplish.

So how far would you go onto someones property? How far is too far? Would you go all the way to their back door?

Please answer these questions.




So you don't think it's a "pretty good system" we have? I agree it's not perfect, but it works. Yes, millions of babies do die because of "our rights" and I don't think that's right just as you don't think the no trespassing laws are...so what do we do? We try to change it legally,not blow up abortion clinics. (I know the two infractions are WAY different but you get my gist)


No, that's why the pilgrims settled here, to be free from religious prosecution.

The framers (our FOUNDING fathers) built this country to get out from under a oppressive government. Religion while an integral part was NOT the primary reason. In fact you might me interested to learn about some of our founding fathers religious (or lack of) beliefs.

"Some of the 1787 delegates (founding fathers) had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics, C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestants Constitutional Convention delegates, 28 were Episcopalian, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Dutch Reformed, and 2 were Methodists. Many of the more prominent Founding Fathers were vocal about their opposition to organized religion or anti-clerical, such as Jefferson. Some of them often related their anti-organized church leanings in their speeches and correspondence, including George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (who created the "Jefferson's Bible"), Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Paine. However, a few of the more notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of traditional Deists, including Franklin, Jefferson, Paine and Ethan Allen.[10]
Notwithstanding the spectrum of beliefs held by the Founding Fathers, most viewed religion in a favorable light. This is noted through their statements in speeches and correspondences in which they describe its role in molding "national morality" and securing the rule of law (George Washington), its check on human "wickedness" (Benjamin Franklin), and its preservation of a free government such as America (John Adams). Regardless, the division of church and state was always emphasized by the founding fathers. "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," Although not a religion, Freemasonry was represented in John Blair, Benjamin Franklin, James Mchenry, George Washington, Abraham Baldwin, Gunning Bedford, William Blount, David Brearly, Daniel Carroll, Jonathan Dayton, Rufus King, John Langdon, George Read, Roger Sherman, James Madison, Robert Morris, William Paterson, and Charles Pinckney."

Your getting you time lines mixed up Tony.


I'm glad because that's the way it's supposed to be done...through the proper channels. The difference is, in the mean timeI'm not willing to break the law and impede on another mans will just to get my deer.



I totally understand the frustration, I'd be frustrated as well, no I'd be pissed off as hell! But as tempting as it would be, I still wouldn't jump and grab.

Don't get me wrong guys, I see the other side of this debate and I don't think ANY less of anyone who has said they would go get their deer because this is such a touchy subject. You have some states that allow the retrieval and others that don't so I can see where folks would think"why is it legal over there (say a mile away over a state line) and not here?"

I just try to put myself in others shoes...would "I" want someone comming onto my property without asking? No, I'd take it as a slap in the face. I'd think "Am I so less of a person to you that you would just walk onto my property with out giving me the common decency to even ask?I would look upon it as an insult.

As far as I could to recover the deer .... now I'm talking if I know 100% that he won't let me pursue my animal ..... if I don't know, or if I haven't asked in awhile I'd ask permission ... where I come from, the landowners have just joined in the search ... so do I when someone comes from the neighboring land ... we're actually happy for them....

It's the best country in the world ... but she aint what she used to be .... it's because of the Laodecian church age we are in ..."The rights of the people" has been twisted to include baby killing, same sex marraige, latch key kids, molestation abounding ..... God has been legislated out of schools, federal buildings, .. you name it .... when God leaves .. the country dies .... research history ...

No, that's why the pilgrims settled here, to be free from religious prosecution.

The framers (our FOUNDING fathers) built this country to get out from under a oppressive government. Religion while an integral part was NOT the primary reason. In fact you might me interested to learn about some of our founding fathers religious (or lack of) beliefs.

"Some of the 1787 delegates (founding fathers) had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics, C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestants Constitutional Convention delegates, 28 were Episcopalian, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Dutch Reformed, and 2 were Methodists. Many of the more prominent Founding Fathers were vocal about their opposition to organized religion or anti-clerical, such as Jefferson. Some of them often related their anti-organized church leanings in their speeches and correspondence, including George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (who created the "Jefferson's Bible"), Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Paine. However, a few of the more notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of traditional Deists, including Franklin, Jefferson, Paine and Ethan Allen.[10]
Notwithstanding the spectrum of beliefs held by the Founding Fathers, most viewed religion in a favorable light. This is noted through their statements in speeches and correspondences in which they describe its role in molding "national morality" and securing the rule of law (George Washington), its check on human "wickedness" (Benjamin Franklin), and its preservation of a free government such as America (John Adams). Regardless, the division of church and state was always emphasized by the founding fathers. "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," Although not a religion, Freemasonry was represented in John Blair, Benjamin Franklin, James Mchenry, George Washington, Abraham Baldwin, Gunning Bedford, William Blount, David Brearly, Daniel Carroll, Jonathan Dayton, Rufus King, John Langdon, George Read, Roger Sherman, James Madison, Robert Morris, William Paterson, and Charles Pinckney."

Your getting you time lines mixed up Tony. [/quote]

I believe that you have read propoganda John ..... here are some quotes for you ...

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

I have plenty more if you would like ...


I'm glad because that's the way it's supposed to be done...through the proper channels. The difference is, in the mean timeI'm not willing to break the law and impede on another mans will just to get my deer.



I totally understand the frustration, I'd be frustrated as well, no I'd be pissed off as hell! But as tempting as it would be, I still wouldn't jump and grab.

Don't get me wrong guys, I see the other side of this debate and I don't think ANY less of anyone who has said they would go get their deer because this is such a touchy subject. You have some states that allow the retrieval and others that don't so I can see where folks would think"why is it legal over there (say a mile away over a state line) and not here?"

I just try to put myself in others shoes...would "I" want someone comming onto my property without asking? No, I'd take it as a slap in the face. I'd think "Am I so less of a person to you that you would just walk onto my property with out giving me the common decency to even ask?I would look upon it as an insult.
[/quote]

I believe that you have read propoganda John ..... here are some quotes for you ...

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

I have plenty more if you would like ...

This is insane.