This is about how i am too

That'll do me

There is much more to shooting spots than there is to shooting groups in your back yard,MUCH MORE.

Spots is a stamina and consistancy game,mostly mental once you get past consistant form and shot sequence.


1 more thing about a group,it is NOTwhat size diameter the arrow fits inside of,it is what size diameter the arrows will touch.[8D]

I do agree that our average groups are no where nearas good asour best groups.


I put 11 arrows in the blue ring(2") on a morrel outdoor range target one time at 30 yardsand the 12th was just out.That was when I was shooting a couple hours EVERYDAY and those were fat shafts(nitro stingers).I did it just to see if I could put the whole dozen new arrows in the spot,I couldn't.


Now,I am lucky to shoot a 2" group consistantly at 20 yards.

GMMAT I totally agree. People over-inflate their abilities when they start talking about their group sizes. They remember the best groups and forget about the majority that make up the true average.

Grab a Vegas target and shoot a 45 arrow round. If you can shoot 1/2" groups at 20 yards, then you are world class. You would have no problem shooting a clean 450 / 45X Vegas round. You should be out there making money with that kind of shooting.

Do you know what percentage of archers can shoot a 450 / 45X Vegas round, with their bow hunting setup? Try it sometime and let us know how it goes.

Not much bigger than these.

One reason people probably inflate is they forget their "off" shots. Kind of like the "winning"
gambler who forgets his bad days.

Sometimes people might shoot 5 groupings and be taking pictures of or reporting on their top 2.

It's been said here that consistency and performing under pressure (not necessarily hunting pressure)
are keys that the successful 3D guys have that some of us don't.

My goal and one that I can pretty much hope to attain and maintain as a hunter/archer is 2" groups at 20,
3" at 30, and 4" at 40. I Heard that formulation last year and it seems like a pretty good rule of thumb for
hunting competency.

Thats what I would like to accomplish myself but a little larger should still work for hunting purposes wouldn't it?But I would also like my game shots 30 yards and under for humane reasons.

The big Vegas tournament uses this target, but they don't use the "x" ring until a couple rounds into the tie breaker. They shoot 300 rounds, 3 of them, which means you are shooting at the 1 9/16 ring for a 10. 30 of them is 300, times 3 days is 900, this will get you into the shootoff. I think last year 8 or 9 people made it. They then drop slowly if at all. They shoot 2-3 ends same rules, then switch to the "x" ring as "10", they drop fast then and they are the best on the planet at this game!

Everyone naturally says their "group" is what is really teh "best". We do it in all sports! I know when I shoot a PR on a golf course, that becomes what I measure against, not my average. Same with my bow.

If you can hold MOA out to 50-60 yards you are an elite level shot!

very nice

Here is my best group at 18 yards, 74# Howard Hill Longbow, 2216 aluminums: