Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Mathews has done nothing of notice for a few years now......slim limbs I guess being the significant offering

Bowtech split their riser but that quickly lost steam and isn't even the focus of their line anymore. This year they rehashed old stuff like roller cable guards and STS knock offs. They have lived on speed from day one but many bows now are as fast or faster with equal or better brace heights.

Hoyt peaked and grabbed huge attention with the cam 1/2 but have seemed to tread water the last couple being good at everything but great at nothing IMO......this year seems no different.

PSE and HCA have both made the big speed push lately and IMO are pushing the envelope with products now carrying warranties at below 5 gpp.........I HIGHLY doubt they would do that if they thought rigs would be blowing up in people's faces. They are questioning long standing archery dogma........and I'm sure others are watching VERY closely.

Elite.........as most know is the former designer of Bowtech who left and married Martin's daughter......so plenty of archery money and know how was combined with a cutting edge mind. They are putting out some amazing bows as far as speed and looks go and are the next company that will "pop" IMO......they are off to a fine start.

Ross is a great solid performing bow and it looks great........but I think they need to do more then that to stand out in the crowd today.


I guess PSE and HCA get my vote for the courage to venture out into the deep end of the pool while everyone else seems happy to stay in the shallow end and keep recycling the same old toys year after year.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

To me it's a no-brainer. Bowtech has been around since (I think) '99. If they haven't made leaps in bounds in that time...I don't know who has. And....the design you say they went away from was a BIG deal, to me. I AGREE that they seemingly have moved away a "little" from it (with the exception of the addition of the General). But...they know the have to cater to their speed demon "base".

I agree with everything you wrote for the most part.......but I think these "other guys" have a long way to go to break the top tier of bow companies threshold. I don't see PSE in that mix. I see Mathews there on: 1. Being a good profuct and 2. name and brand recognition. Hoyt, in my opinion, is falling by the wayside. It really, to me, looks like old technology. If you're "hoyt guy"....I'm sure they're catering to you, just fine. I hope their base stays loyal.....for their sake.

But to look at what Bowtech has done in a mere 8 years.....and even with what they are doing last year (Guardian, Commander) and this year (101s and 82nd speed bows)....and saying they're hanging out in the shallow end........

I just disagree (respectfully).

Perception. We just have a different perception.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

i have to say that Mathews makes some outstanding bows but what have they changed. PSE made the X-Force with those really curved limbs that look tarible(IMO). Ross has just got the standared compound bow with the string catcher buty it really is a nice bow. If you look at the last 8 like gmmat said, i would think that bowtech has (went out on a edge) to try to find newer and better things. My vote is for bowtech.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

If I wanted to know about the last 8 years I would have asked that.


They are moving away from the split riser already and this year they offered nothing but rehashed old technology (roller guard and STS copy). If anything they took a step backwards and recreated a 2008 version of the Patriot (which was the speed burner of its day).

I love my Bowtech (2003 Patriot)........so much so that IMO they have yet to make a better bow. They USED to be untouchable in the speed department but now many bows have caught and/or passed them..........with their speed no longer unmatched I don't see anything else in the 2008 lineup that could even be considered "new" technology...........let alone the leading edge.


I wonder if R+D departments are finding out that it's more profitable to follow rather then lead...........because most companies seem to be on idle right now.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Hey...this is just a discussion....but I don't see this. They introduced a new bow (along the lines of this technology) in the General, this year....that will (in my opinion) take over a HUGE chunk of the hunting market in a just a few years. I've seen it happen in the shop I shoot at.....someone comes in to shoot the "new" bows.....shoots a (_________) brand and then the General.....and whetehr they buy one or not, the General gets their attention.

PSE has gotten to the speeds at a price. Have you shot one?

You may have a point.....but where do you go from 340fps+? And the Guardian/Commander split limb technology is still new (IMO)....and still "fresh". The difference in the HCA and the Bowtech isn't that the HCA is a faster bow. It's that they're willing to warrant their limbs for a lighter arrow.

I am also one (admittedly) who doesn't need to have an earth-shattering technological breakthrough to pull the buying trigger. Hell....I buy 'em because it's fun to have a new bow.;)

I thin all the big name bow companies have probably done wonders for each other. I just see one doing more (all-around).

I do wonder what the next "breakthrough" will be;)

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I know where you are comming from Atlas and I agree. I am a diehard BowTech fan (have been since I first layed my hands on Big Johns personal Patriot SC), but they really didn't come out with anything "innovative" this year, last year...yes, this year... not so much. They pretty much just refined their line-up, but if you look around at the rest of the bow companies, nobody really did anything that was ground breaking this year. HCA has been pushing the speed aspect for a few years now and them warranting their bows to less than 5 gpp isn't new, they have been trying this for a few years. PSE did move into a new direction, but their major set-back is that their design isn't what is typically associated with the parrallel limb bows. The major set-back that I see for them is simply their name. They have and probably always will be known as a "cheap" bow company, and the prices that they expect for their top end bows is around $100-$150 more than bows that have more marketable names (BowTech, Hoyt, Mathews, ect). If somebody asked you what type of bow you had and you said a PSE, then they asked you what you paid for it and you said, $949.99 bare bow, that person will probablly laugh at you.

Elite really isn't innovative either, yes they are a new company, but their design is going to be associated with the BowTechs simply because of the owner and the fact that he is using the same ideas he did for BowTech to make Elite. Take a Elite and a BowTech, spray paint them flat black and ask 50 regular archers what type of bow they are andI would be willing to bet that 45 of them would answer BowTech.

Ross could possibly be the next company to break out with a "must have" bow, but IMO they would have to inscrease the speed compared to what they have now.

Hoyt and Mathews are both treading the water but neither company really is endanger of loosing any business. Their fan base is large and so well established that they really don't need to spend the extra money trying to make some ground breaking product every year. For the most part, Hoyt owners will always buy new Hoyts and Mathews owners will always buy new Mathews no matter just how much or little of an improvement their is in the product!

It seems that all bow companies have hit a wall for now. They have hit the point where they have maximized their designs to get the most performance while still maintaining the great shootability of the bow. This has happened before, take a look at some of the bows before Hoyt came out with the Tec Riser and Cam and a Half, and before Mathews came out with the parrallel limb bows, the market was in more of a standstill each year. The past 5 or 6 years companies have been pumping out new idea after new idea and it seems as though they are start to run out of ways to revolutionize the compound bow. Give it a few years and something will come out that will truly rock the bow market and all these designs will change again.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

In just about every industry, there comes a point when everyone is saying,"How much better could it get?" I pretty much am at that point right now with archery. I would think, because of its primitiveness, that it would have a point where it cant get any better. How much faster can we get a specific weight arrow to go? How much lighter do you want your arrows to be(hunting situations)? How much smoother and shock free can you make a bow? There will be a point where we will have topped out. The question to ourselves is,"How much easier do you want it for yourself." And I'm not saying its easy, so dont jump all over me. I'm just saying we bowhunt because we like the challenge, when do we start cheating ourselves out of that challenge?

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

What else can be done that would be "acceptable" in the archery industry. If too much is "innovated" it's shunned. Take that little bow (Liberty) without a riser, not setting the world on fire in sales but truly innovated.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I kinda think the technology leader would be the one who's doing the technology I like. And that would be BowTech, specifically the center pivot limb design.

Frankly, there isn't much room for 'innovation' that hasn't been tried before. Single cams had been around long before Mathews, for instance. Mathews is using old Bear technology like the roller guide and string stops. Hoyt is using old Darton cams on a spin-off of an old Martin riser. Even the hot 'new' parallel limb designs harken back to the old 34" a-t-abow from Rigid in the 70's.;)

The old designs usually didn't work with the materials available at the time, or were ideas that archers of the day looked at and called 'BS' on 'em. Now we have improved materials that make those old innovations feasible.Also there isa younger generation of shooters that don't remember those old designs, have a thirst for stuff that's new and different and aren't so careful with how they spend their money as the old timers were. So the companies can recycle the old ideas with new materials and market them as fresh new innovations. They make money, the shooters have their new toys and everybody's happy.

All the while there is someone sitting back, thinking to themselves... SUCKERS! [8D]

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Arthur

The exact reason I shoot a ROSS, I know they are not the "in" bow. They are well built, fast enough, accurate(very), quiet, and tough as hell.

I could care less if my arrow goes 260 fps or 300 fps. As long as it hits where I Aim. Looks is another one I love. My bow "looks" mean, LOL

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Speed, to me, isn't a real innovation. Shifting paradigms from what is considered traditional, however, is.

As Arthur mentioned, its going to be difficult for companies to come out with new technology that hasn't been, at some point in history, already been tried. Roller guards, string stops, binary-esque cams, etc... Its all been done at one point or another, so rarely will you find anything truly new and innovative.

My vote goes to Bowtech, a company constantly striving to change the way archers look at archery.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I have never shot Bowtech because of the speed. It is one of the factors I always consider when choosing a bow, but definitely not the top of the list. Bowtech has been very inovative since their inception and not to see that is sticking your hand in the sand. I do have an Airborne ordered. For the speed? Sure!! but if after I had shot one it drew and shot like other speed bows I had tried last year. NO Way I would have ordered on!;)I still have my Ally which is the fastest bow I have ever packed into the woods, and the Guardian, and General are super quiet, less than 0 shock, and the 2 most forgiving/accurate bows I have shot. They are just a true pleasure to shoot!! All this is not even mentioning the absolutely Awesome Octane accessories they are releasing very soon![8D]I also am proud to have a company standing behind my Bow where customer service is Job One:D

It's not hard to see Who "Refuses to Follow"

Dan

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

no one has said anything about parker..so i guess i will...not to say they have made the "most" improvements........but they keep the products light...which for a backpack hunter i like....all of there newer products, i feel aremade for more backpack hunters or still hunters....lowering there ATA and keeping their weights down..offering good speed and the parkers i have and shot, IMO, are very nice bows:D

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I buy a lot of used bows here and there to try out for fun, but every 4 or 5 years I replace my main hunting bow with a completely new model. When I do this, I never just impulse buy; in fact I probably go overboard on research since I drive my wife nuts with it. She hates it because our mail gets flooded with catalogs I request from companies, our email gets bogged down with replies to questions I've asked manufactures, I litter our desktop with downloaded spec sheet pdf's and clutter the bookmarks with links to different bows, etc. After really, really looking at all the manufacture's offerings in the last year; not just the cams but the total bow package, ( and I know many may think I'm nuts to say this) but my vote goes to Pearson this year, and as such I've ordered one. Some of the innovations are the ETI and the teflon coated cams, not to mention the Deliverance "shoot through riser" bow they introduced at the ATA show.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I have owned a parker in my day
Pro 38, good shooter, but vibrated like a SOB

Take a look at ROSS rise design. They have a true left to right center shot. Sometimes it's what you do not see that matters the most.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: GMMAT


"PSE has gotten to the speeds at a price. Have you shot one?"


What price would that be?

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

But can it be said that the "shoot through riser" is not innovation? Shoot throughs have come and gone but never really took off.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

With out specifically mentioningany models in the line up here are a few things I have never seen offered on a bow.... All new for 2008.....
[/align]
[/align]InVelvet which isan armor coating much stronger than other finishes. InVelvet not only protects against wear and is resistant to chemicals such as DEET; it's soft and warm to the touch, insulating your hands from the cold. Better still, InVelvet is a noise dampener, significantly quieting your bow.
[/align]
[/align]The HotPursuitheated gripis heated by one nine-volt battery to a warm and nimble 40 - 50 degrees above the ambient temperature for an average of 5 hours. It is water resistant to ensure your hands stay warm, even in the rain.
[/align]
[/align]Laser grip by Crimson Trace. This patent-pending design packs a powerful laser, long-lasting batteries and an ergonomic activation system into a two-piece grip. Easily adjustable for windage and elevation, the laser activates when the bow is drawn, applying pressure to the grip.
[/align]
[/align]Not new for this year but heck, they offer their bows in 8 different finishes..... 8 of em!
[/align]

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

This question is a no brainer. To say Bowtech is not innvative is like saying you have been sleeping for 4 years. What about 3 generations of Binary cams ? Pivoting risers? Bowtech "is " the state of the art in bows right now.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Me neither, Dan....but when I was shooting a mathews....and shot the Allegiance....I saw I could give up NOTHING....and pick up the extra speed as a side-effect.

NO BRAINER.

And the PSE (IMO) leaves a lot to be desired. The back wall is very spongey......and the shock I got out of the X-force is NOT what I'm accustomed to. So yeah.....they got to those speeds at a price.

Again....IMO.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

IMO the X-Force you shot was out of tune. Neither of my X-Force had any hand shock.


I shot the 82nd about a month ago and I thought I was shooting the HCA Z-Force. Without a smoother draw. Plenty fast, terrible draw cycle.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Probably not. The one I shot was the PSE Rep's bow;).

Different strokes for different folks. Good luck with your PSE's.;)

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

In the spring of 03 I bought 6 brand new bows to shoot for a month or whatever it took to decide which one I wanted to keep. I bought 2 Hoyts, only1 Mathews (had shot their flagship bows for 6 years, 1 High Country, and 2 Bowtechs. I ended up selling them all within 6 weeks except for a Bowtech, and have shot them ever since. The Speed may have not been a deciding factor, but it sure was an added bonus;)

I always tell everyone to shoot them all and then decide what's best for you. Bows from Bowtech will sell themselves:D
I know that from packing a bag target around and a couple of bows. I always love the look I generally get after letting someone shoot my bow;)

You're Right Jeff! Shooting Bowtech is a No Brainer:)

Dan

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

In all honesty. The past 8yrs, it would have to be Bowtech.



BUT!

I honestly think these new Elites are going to be a big hit. All of you guys that are currently shooting Bowtechs, I would love to see you pick up the new GTO and shoot it. You couldn't convince me that the GTO draw cycle, was a draw cycle on a 350fps bow. 350fps, with a 7" Brace Height!! That alone is impresssive. The Xtreme XL they make, is an 8" Brace, 36" ATAand 320-330 ibo [:-]. That's impressive.


I can see Ross strating to take over the single cam market once they get a good solid production year under them. If this year goes smoothly, I could see a big design for next year.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

True it has been around for some time, but you could say the same about cams, or limbs, or whatever. The innovation could be said to lay with how a company can take an existing idea and improve upon it and make it work better. From what I understand from many folks that attended, the ATA show was pretty dull, but this particular bow was the buzz.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Sure Alice!!;)

Dan

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

But can it do this? ;)

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Matt, the thing is that once you get away from these message boards, the average archer hasn't heard of Elite. They don't have enough dealers yet to be a dominant brand in the market. Their website lists a total of 8 dealers in PA! Not too mention that alot of guys that do stay "in the loop" witnessed what Kevin had done on a public message board and don't really trust him. For a man that designed bows for a certain company to turn around and trash talk everything that he had done just leaves a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths.

As far as the speeds go, yes, they are impressive, but they also aren't anything earth shattering either. The 101st has a 7-1/4" brace height and will spit out 340 f.p.s. The numbers are high, but alot of companies are catching up to those speeds now!

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Not from all of what I read and pictures I've seen over on another site. The Bowtech booth was packed consistantly while others, crickets played...LOL

I agree, with the bold statement, Bowtech along with a few others continue to do that. I read quite a few highlights from the ATA show, on this site and others from several attendies from across the industry, your mention of said bow is the very first post I've read on that bow. The "buzz" was Bowtechs 08 line and especially the up and coming Octane accessories.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I'm not saying Bowtech is not innovative, they, in fact, are. I was merely answering the original poster's question with an opinion, and the same to yours. I, however, am just a simple, average guy who is not beholden to a particular company by being on their corporate staff, therefor I would expect you to cheer for your company. It is not without merit either.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

edited for misinterpretation:


FYI, That is by choice because of who they are, not because of who they are not.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I would saythere are a few brands that are close, can not speak on bowtech never ownedone. I have owned a hoyt but it has been a few years. I have a mathews right now seems like a good bow quiet, smooth an accurate. I think alot of it comes down to customer service.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I can assure you it was in no way an attempt at that. However if you wish to take it that way for some reason, I can do nothing about it. Especialy when I complemented Bowtech.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Yeah, I see it was revamped, my apologies.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I'd like to try a Ross, Germ. Unfortunately, the longest draw length they make is still3 1/2" too short for me. [&o]

As long as you can keep up appearances, you're in good shape. :D;)

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Inflection cannot be typed very easily. I accept that risk on boards and the risk of responses like that because of it. No appology required.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

That's an understatment my turkey slappin brother, happens to often across the forums. Is it spring yet? We need to take our minds off the "off season". ;)

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

I began shooting Bowtechs in 03;)I am on Corporate Staff because I love the Bows:D

I do NOT Love the bows because I am on Corporate Staff;)Big difference and I see way too much of the later.[8D]

Dan

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

Scott - I really like this idea. And you guys are right - Bowtech is a company that isn't afraid to shake things up...and I respect that. I've never felt the Invelvet yet, but I bet it's gonna set the standard in coatings, if it works as advertised.

I think HCA is pushing the envelope right now - not with their bows, so much as with their arrows. Of course, they're building a bow that can handle those shafts, which is noteworthy. It will take a few years before people warm up to that idea, though.

Hoyt, Mathews - yesterday's newspaper.

RE: Who is the leader in bow technology right now?
 

That's nothing, I have a picture on my cell phone of Matt/PA shooting 4 arrows at the same time...;)

Remember that Matt?