Well, if you want to look at the original question(s) there are actually two- the one in the post title... "Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?" -and-

"how do you define hunter ability and skill from state to state?"

What I want to adress nowis the belittling underlying insinuation attached to the "LOCATION" argument that must in some way be felt by guys in P&Y rich environmentswho've worked their butts off for decades to get the big bucksonly to be told by admittedly waaay less experienced hunters that the habitat bears most credit. Do you not see how insulting this must be to a vet?

So we are debating location again huh??..........this has been going on for ages and will never stop I'm sure. After so many years of having this same discussion it is abundantly clear that what rubs everyone the wrong way is the hidden message in the debate..........those in prime locals feel slighted by the notion that their accomplishents are being diluted because of the suggestion that THEY are not the key to "success"...........and those in less friendly locals feel slighted because of the suggestion that THEY are the key to their "lack of success".This will probably never change.


Maybe the problem is the definition of "success" I shot two 3.5 year olds and one4.5 year old this year.........the 4.5 had the smallest rack of them all........+/- 100" and the other from NY is under 115" I'm sure. I shoot two deer that age in Kansas, Iowa, or Illinois and they would be 140"150" at least.........that is common sense based on what people describe as the "average" big deer for their areas. That is genetics and nutrition more then anything else.......so to compare deer based on racks only is about as useful as a rubber crutch. However, no one takes pictures of a deer's teeth or mounts jaw bones so I guess it's natural..........boys will be boys.


Here are some things to consider when wondering how important location is to putting a big rack on the ground.


In 20 years of hunting NY I have never even seen a deer that would make P+Y........3 days into an out of state hunt I had one on the ground.........you mean to tell me that is a coincidence?? Obviously my skills as a hunter were not the obstacle.

For somewhere in the ballpark of $2,500-$3,000 you can see and have legit shots to kill big deer EVERY year with your bow..........these are fair chase hunts. If you are average to above average in your skills you will have more heads then walls to hang them on. As the price goes up so do the rack sizes. $5,000 and 150" minimums are not uncommon out there.

When people pay the above quoted price it isn't to hunt the coast lines...........why?

Does anyone here REALLY think they couldn't kill a big deer on Hunsucker's land?? (Please don't turn this into an insult against Michael because it isn't)

Why does everyone want to know where greg hunts if location doesn't matter??

Why do greg and his friends (and everyone else with a brain) keep their mouth shut when they have a great place to hunt??

If someone called you tomorrow and offered you a lifelong chance to hunt Pike County would you be happy or sad??

Why do people guard their land so tightly if location doesn't matter??

Would POSTED signs even exist if location didn't matter??

Why do guys spend tens of thousands of dollars on hunting land??

Why are out of state licenses more in states with higher concentrations of big bucks??

Why is it that those who say location doesn't matter are always speaking from a location most would kill to be allowed to hunt??........the opposite of course being true as well.



Location matters...........A LOT.............Would greg and troy kill big deer wherever they lived?? Of course they would. Would their walls look different if they lived in Tampa??.........of course they would. Would I have bigger deer on the wall if I lived and hunted in the corn belt??.......of course I would.

You still have to know how to hunt and find these deer.........trying to find one in Florida is not the same as trying to find one in Kansas, I don't know how anyone could argue that point.


In closing.........I mentioned a few names in this post only because everyone knows them and nothing more. I am only gonna say this once.........I have nothing but the HIGHEST amount of respect for these guys as hunters and men and IN NO WAY included them in my write up to diminish what they have accomplished. I view them as fine hunters and excellent examples of the good in this sport.......I could have easily used other names in place of theirs so absolutely nothing personal should be implied.

Also you stated you would probably never enter into P&Y so why are you bothering with this?

Also I was wrong about the 20 years, it was 10 years.

Who said it!