This too is going to be affectd by location....................Its cold up here...........

Fraley I promise I'm not arguing with you....just trying to state a FACT.

I'll give you partial points on your last statement too......ONLY in regards to the area I hunt. Sure....there ARE mature deer (bucks) here. I've seen them.......THREE of them in THREE seasons (and 1 was only on trail cam). The other two are either on my wall or at my taxidermist.

Compare that to how many others here in the forums see on an annual basis. Now tell me.....if you were a betting man.....who would you bet on to kill one, next season? it's simply a "numbers" thing. Some areas of our country (and even states)have differing degrees of population, hunting pressure, etc... ......all elements required to allow bucks to grow to maturity. But the biggest factor in all of this is "location".

Let's say you're out to catch a world-class Bass. Where would you go? I'm certain there are farm ponds all over the country that hold 10# fish. BUT.....there are areas of the country that hold a SUBSTANTIALLY higher percentage of these fish. There are areas within those areas that receive less fishing pressure than others. I can't recall seeing an FLW tour event in WV. And I certainly suspect that .....if there was one....no records would be threatened.

I know jeff I am just having problems wording it thats all. I am not good at this.
Bob I am not trying to Jab.[:@]
I really think you could kill a P&Y buck where you are at but right now you are doing the management thing and a mature buck will not stick around to be a dead one. I believe if you change your way of hunting this land of yours you could get a P&Y. With killing 8 doe's thats a lot of intrustion on that land and you know they wont stand for it. If you ever decide to take 1year and go after a P&Y and settle for nothing else I do believe you would kill one.
Keep the pressure from you down, have your stands up way before the season, enter and exit paths set I think you wouldwack one. You have the deer numbers down there so I am guessing they have to be there thats all.

I also had FL to much on my mind when I was making these points compared to my area.

So in closing yes location is key I do agree.

Doublecreek.....let me change that around a little and ask you for your thought son the amended.

You think guys likeMatt/PA and Rob/PAaren't hammering P&Y bucks EVERY year b/c of their location? Do you think their work ethic is inferior to guys on here who DO take them most every year? Or.....could it be as simple as......location?

Fraley:

I'm being 100% honest with you......I have never SEEN a buck that would go 110" where I hunt. I have seen ONE buck that would gross 130" around here......in a photograph....in my shop. It was killed opening morning of the 2005 season. That's just the way it IS.

I, like you, think I can take a P&Y buck from the woods I hunt. I also think it's going to take several years of doing what I'm doing right now......before I reap the rewards of the effort.

Let me ask you this......IF my goal was to take a P&Y buck.....and that was my ONLY goal.......

Do you think I'd (or Atlasman....or Rob/PA....or Quik....etc...)have taken one, by now......hunting where Greg hunts? Where Shed hunts? Where Hunsucker hunts? You get the picture.

I take NOTHING....I mean NOTHING away from these guys accomplishments. I think they ALL do what it takes to make themselves successful. MANY.....MANY hunters do those exact same things. They just hunt in LESS target0rich environments.

Each of the hunters I cited have differing goals going into each season. For some....it's a specific buck or two. But the common thread is.......there are more of "those" deer (P&Y) where they hunt. It's just a fact.

Again...nothing but respect for what they do. Never said otherwise.

Yes I do thinkthey would get one no doubt about it. Much sooner then what it took me to finally get one here in Wi. I was missing the points and thinking one sided to much, a old timer here at work read this thread and kind of put both sides into prospective for me and I will leave it a that.

Wow, the green-eyed monster rears it's ugly head once again.

With your last comment you're to be taken seriously!!??

Just guessing by what I've read on these forums for going on 6 years, yes, their work ethic seems to be on par with mine, which is far inferior to a guy like Shed33....

No offense GMATT, but it does not take a work ethic to learn how to hunt your 65 acres.. Just like it doesn't take much of a work ethic for Rob to hunt is home place or for me to hunt my 400 acres.... That is not a knock against guys like us.... It is what it is..

Thepoint of my post was that just b/c you have location, doesnt really mean squat... I used myself as an example... My state has some fairly decent bucks, but I know guys that consistently kill much larger deer than anyone else..... The #1 factor being work ethic.

Let me expound on my above point......

The most successful hunters I know never stop.... They are year-round scouting MULTIPLE properties.... Always seeking permission....Its a 365 day hobby...It never ends.... They don't just get comfortable with one place and then sit back and wait....They make it happen.....

I personally don't care to make it that serious.. That takes the fun out of it for me..I like to find a good property and then just hunt it the best I can....

Fair enough, DC....but you don't have to look too far....(OK....right here in THIS thread) to find hunters hunting VERY small parcels themselves.....and killing P&Y after P&Y.

Think they have a good location?

We'll just call it a difference of opinion....amd move on, then. No problem. Hunters can only take what their hunting property gives them.....OR strive to improve it. I just think the guys I mentioned are probably AS dedicated to their pursuits as anyone.....but are bound by my former assertion. Again....just a difference of opinion.

I think your on to something with the work ethic. But I feel one of the biggest factors is the ability to close the deal. How many guys posted here about makingpoor shot choices on big bucks?