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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Vanes and feathers do more good the farther they are back on the arrow to control arrow flight better. The gap from the nock to the back of the arrow came from fingers shooters to give them clearance for their fingers on release and a release shooter doesn't need it. Most finger shooter don't need as much as the arrow in the picture. Production arrows are made this way because they don't know who are how a costumers going to shoot with it and play it safe by moving them that much forward. Four inch vanes on a carbon arrow will control any broadhead out there because a carbon arrow will straighten out faster out of a bow. That way every one is going to blazer vanes shorter, taller and great control. They work great on today's set ups and broadheads. If your bow is out of tune are you have a very sloppy release yes 5 inch will work better to help straighten your arrow out, but most bowhunters now days don.t need it.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
How far up do you beleive the lungs go in the rib cage? I always figured there were 3 inches or so below the top of the rib cage.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
IAhunter, I'd love to have seen the picture that deer after it was skinned and the meat/shoulders removed. That hit looks like another classic above the spinal cordhit.
 There is simply no way to hit below the actual vertebral column without taking out the lungs and/or the dorsal aorta. (unless the hitis too farback) The diaphram constricts on exhalation, the lungs don't fall away from the inside of the ribs. The pleura (area between the lungs and chest wall) is very thin. Too thin for a broadhead to pass through. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
These pics have been floating around for awhile but they really show how low the vertebral column goes.
This hit is a 'spine' shot. Two inches higher and the deer probably would have run off and lived.   |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
That picture is hard to beleive! Wow!
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
now that is wild!! WOW!!
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: IAhuntr ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt The arrow was most definitely ABOVE the spine as Rob stated. As far as the "hollow spot" "no man's land" stuff goes, it's a myth. I am not trying to start that great debate all over, but I can assure you after field dressing/butchering well over 100 deer and having two close friends who are wildlife biologists, if you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. It is possible to hit above the spine and cause nothing more than a flesh wound barring infection. If it is below the spine and good left/right the lungs are taken out resulting in a quick, clean kill.  Hisentry hole on the other side was a bit higher, but it positively passed below the spine, just through the top of the chest cavity, and appeared to missed both lungs.The holes in the top of the chect cavity were quite evident upon dressing.No hemorage was identified at the top of either lung. Theprevious arrow andblood trail was consistant with a flesh wound. The lungs are somewhat free-floating in the cavity, and it is possible for the lungs partially deflatedduring aheavy exhaleto move a bit within the cavity leaving a gap up top. Won't happen very often, but it certainly did in this case, and this deer was remarkably well healed for such a recent wound. Ley me clarify, I believe a deer can survive on one lung, it has been proven, and I've seen it first hand. Having said that, I believe that the entrance wound in the above pic was most likely above the spine, missing the closest lung, resulting in a one lung hit. I will not be careful with my wording. If the entrance had been as low as the exit, the deer would have never been around for someone else to shoot. Once again, if a projectile enters below the spine and passes through the rib cage, the result is a dead deer. There is no "area" below the spine, above the lungs, that can result in a "superficial wound". As others have said, I don't think alot of people understand how low the spine lies and that the lungs take up the entire rib cage when the deer is alive. The lungs are not the size that they are when you are holding them in your hand after field dressing as they are when the deer is on it's feet. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: Schultzy ORIGINAL: BigTiny I never heard of no-mans-land until this year (I'm new at this). A friend of mine shot a buck out of his box stand opening day of rifle season and he just wandered off. A couple of days later he shot the same buck and dropped him. You could see the wound went all the way thru without hitting anything important. Pretty big exit wound, but no critical damage. Maybe given time the buck would have died of infection, but he made it thru a few days no problem. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt Ley me clarify, I believe a deer can survive on one lung, it has been proven, and I've seen it first hand. Having said that, I believe that the entrance wound in the above pic was most likely above the spine, missing the closest lung, resulting in a one lung hit. I will not be careful with my wording. If the entrance had been as low as the exit, the deer would have never been around for someone else to shoot. Once again, if a projectile enters below the spine and passes through the rib cage, the result is a dead deer. There is no "area" below the spine, above the lungs, that can result in a "superficial wound". As others have said, I don't think alot of people understand how low the spine lies and that the lungs take up the entire rib cage when the deer is alive. The lungs are not the size that they are when you are holding them in your hand after field dressing as they are when the deer is on it's feet. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt ORIGINAL: IAhuntr ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt The arrow was most definitely ABOVE the spine as Rob stated. As far as the "hollow spot" "no man's land" stuff goes, it's a myth. I am not trying to start that great debate all over, but I can assure you after field dressing/butchering well over 100 deer and having two close friends who are wildlife biologists, if you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. It is possible to hit above the spine and cause nothing more than a flesh wound barring infection. If it is below the spine and good left/right the lungs are taken out resulting in a quick, clean kill. Hisentry hole on the other side was a bit higher, but it positively passed below the spine, just through the top of the chest cavity, and appeared to missed both lungs.The holes in the top of the chect cavity were quite evident upon dressing.No hemorage was identified at the top of either lung. Theprevious arrow andblood trail was consistant with a flesh wound. The lungs are somewhat free-floating in the cavity, and it is possible for the lungs partially deflatedduring aheavy exhaleto move a bit within the cavity leaving a gap up top. Won't happen very often, but it certainly did in this case, and this deer was remarkably well healed for such a recent wound. Ley me clarify, I believe a deer can survive on one lung, it has been proven, and I've seen it first hand. Having said that, I believe that the entrance wound in the above pic was most likely above the spine, missing the closest lung, resulting in a one lung hit. I will not be careful with my wording. If the entrance had been as low as the exit, the deer would have never been around for someone else to shoot. Once again, if a projectile enters below the spine and passes through the rib cage, the result is a dead deer. There is no "area" below the spine, above the lungs, that can result in a "superficial wound". As others have said, I don't think alot of people understand how low the spine lies and that the lungs take up the entire rib cage when the deer is alive. The lungs are not the size that they are when you are holding them in your hand after field dressing as they are when the deer is on it's feet. You're absolutely correct rdy2hnt. I shot a doe last year that was just an inch or so lower than this picture (upper wound) and I spined her. The spine on a deer is much lower than alot of people believe. If more people would butcher their own deer or at least do a thorough post-field-dressing inspection, they'd see this. Take a look at Christine's picture again. The farther forward you go on a deer, the lower the spine is. |
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