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Arrow found in gun kill.
I thought you guys might like to see this. I shot this buck yesterday during the Illinois gun season. As he was running away I noticed a funny looking spot on his back. It ended up being about 20" of arrow that had gone high through his back at a quartering away angle. The arrow had gone through a vertebrae and out of the other side. He did not appear to be bothered by it as he was chasing does when I shot him. The pic is after I skinned him, I put the arrow back in the show the angle.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
It's amazing how tough deer are.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Good to see you shot him! That don't look good when people see an arrow sticking out of a deer when out driving around.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Was the broadhead still on the arrow? If it was, what kind was it?
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Thats amazing...Im suprised it didnt bother him.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
yea wat kind of arrow and that is amazing how strong they are and how far you shoot him from
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Amazingly tough animals that is for sure. Just goes to show, high high the actual back line is compared to the spine and that many people see a shot through the animal as something different than what actually happened. Many would suspect that shot to be under the spine and some would call it "no mans land". That kind of shot leads to the myth of "no mans land".
Thanks for sharing rdy2hunt. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Wouldn't some people argue their point that there is a "no man's land" after seeing those pictures? I don't really get what you are saying here.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: mjhamel Wouldn't some people argue their point that there is a "no man's land" after seeing those pictures? I don't really get what you are saying here. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
No Shultzy, I'm saying that "No mans land", "void", "hollow spot" doesn't exist. Period. That arrow in this buck I believe and rdy2hunt can correct me is above the spine....and the shot many THINK is below the spine just like now.
The spine is much lower in a deer than many think, some spots on a mature animal it's 6" below the hair line/back line of a deer. Many think they are below the spine when the are NOT. It's possible to break bones in the spine without breaking the spine or spinal cord, the deer will be fine as in this case. (again, rdy2hunt, correct me if I'm wrong). |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
It was a Wal-Mart carbon arrow and no, the broadhead wasn't on it. The shaft broke right where you see it sticking out of him.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
I don't know about that being a myth, Rob. There is a zone on elk we call the "taint" out here. 'Taint nothin there but a flesh wound - below the spine and above the top of the lungs in the rib cage. Recovery probability is very low. I haven't done a lot of archery deer hunting, but I would assume they are anatomically about the same - although the zone is obviously bigger on elk.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer No Shultzy, I'm saying that "No mans land", "void", "hollow spot" doesn't exist. Period. That arrow in this buck I believe and rdy2hunt can correct me is above the spine....and the shot many THINK is below the spine just like now. The spine is much lower in a deer than many think, some spots on a mature animal it's 6" below the hair line/back line of a deer. Many think they are below the spine when the are NOT. It's possible to break bones in the spine without breaking the spine or spinal cord, the deer will be fine as in this case. (again, rdy2hunt, correct me if I'm wrong). |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
The arrow was most definitely ABOVE the spine as Rob stated. As far as the "hollow spot" "no man's land" stuff goes, it's a myth. I am not trying to start that great debate all over, but I can assure you after field dressing/butchering well over 100 deer and having two close friends who are wildlife biologists, if you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. It is possible to hit above the spine and cause nothing more than a flesh wound barring infection. If it is below the spine and good left/right the lungs are taken out resulting in a quick, clean kill.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Did you notice how far the vanes are from the nock and it looks like five inch vanes. Holly crapp who would fletch that far forward on a arrow and who uses five inch vanes any more other than trad. people. I can't tell if it's alunimun are a carbon arrow. Must be cardon because aluminum you think would of been broke of on the at the vanes with that much arrow sticking out.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
I never heard of no-mans-land until this year (I'm new at this). A friend of mine shot a buck out of his box stand opening day of rifle season and he just wandered off. A couple of days later he shot the same buck and dropped him. You could see the wound went all the way thru without hitting anything important. Pretty big exit wound, but no critical damage. Maybe given time the buck would have died of infection, but he made it thru a few days no problem.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt The arrow was most definitely ABOVE the spine as Rob stated. As far as the "hollow spot" "no man's land" stuff goes, it's a myth. I am not trying to start that great debate all over, but I can assure you after field dressing/butchering well over 100 deer and having two close friends who are wildlife biologists, if you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. It is possible to hit above the spine and cause nothing more than a flesh wound barring infection. If it is below the spine and good left/right the lungs are taken out resulting in a quick, clean kill. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Wonder if that was a downhill shotor might of beena tree stand shot.?
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: BigTiny I never heard of no-mans-land until this year (I'm new at this). A friend of mine shot a buck out of his box stand opening day of rifle season and he just wandered off. A couple of days later he shot the same buck and dropped him. You could see the wound went all the way thru without hitting anything important. Pretty big exit wound, but no critical damage. Maybe given time the buck would have died of infection, but he made it thru a few days no problem. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Not much angle on the arrow. Must of been on the ground are not very high in a tree. It could of been a longer shot too. WAl-Mart arrow thats way it looks like it dose. A production made arrow.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
well i seen this on another forum thought it ws a lil better then the one you posted here
http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=424435& nt=3&fpart=1 |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: Schultzy ORIGINAL: BigTiny I never heard of no-mans-land until this year (I'm new at this). A friend of mine shot a buck out of his box stand opening day of rifle season and he just wandered off. A couple of days later he shot the same buck and dropped him. You could see the wound went all the way thru without hitting anything important. Pretty big exit wound, but no critical damage. Maybe given time the buck would have died of infection, but he made it thru a few days no problem. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: robdre56 well i seen this on another forum thought it ws a lil better then the one you posted here http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=424435& nt=3&fpart=1 |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
were not but i just happened to read another post then seen urs sry for the way i phrased that
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
No problem, sorry if I came accross wrong, lack of sleep will do that. Cool pic. by the way.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
np man i know how that is
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Bummer about the backstraps. That is a perfect example of an 'above the spine' hit.
ORIGINAL: bowdoc1 Did you notice how far the vanes are from the nock and it looks like five inch vanes. Holly crapp who would fletch that far forward on a arrow and who uses five inch vanes any more other than trad. people. I have about the same gap from the back of my feathers to my nock. (that way I can shoot them with fingers or a release). There are still several of us weirdos out there. :D |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt The arrow was most definitely ABOVE the spine as Rob stated. As far as the "hollow spot" "no man's land" stuff goes, it's a myth. I am not trying to start that great debate all over, but I can assure you after field dressing/butchering well over 100 deer and having two close friends who are wildlife biologists, if you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. It is possible to hit above the spine and cause nothing more than a flesh wound barring infection. If it is below the spine and good left/right the lungs are taken out resulting in a quick, clean kill.  Hisentry hole on the other side was a bit higher, but it positively passed below the spine, just through the top of the chest cavity, and appeared to missed both lungs.The holes in the top of the chect cavity were quite evident upon dressing.No hemorage was identified at the top of either lung. Theprevious arrow andblood trail was consistant with a flesh wound. The lungs are somewhat free-floating in the cavity, and it is possible for the lungs partially deflatedduring aheavy exhaleto move a bit within the cavity leaving a gap up top. Won't happen very often, but it certainly did in this case, and this deer was remarkably well healed for such a recent wound. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
f you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer f you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
Vanes and feathers do more good the farther they are back on the arrow to control arrow flight better. The gap from the nock to the back of the arrow came from fingers shooters to give them clearance for their fingers on release and a release shooter doesn't need it. Most finger shooter don't need as much as the arrow in the picture. Production arrows are made this way because they don't know who are how a costumers going to shoot with it and play it safe by moving them that much forward. Four inch vanes on a carbon arrow will control any broadhead out there because a carbon arrow will straighten out faster out of a bow. That way every one is going to blazer vanes shorter, taller and great control. They work great on today's set ups and broadheads. If your bow is out of tune are you have a very sloppy release yes 5 inch will work better to help straighten your arrow out, but most bowhunters now days don.t need it.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
How far up do you beleive the lungs go in the rib cage? I always figured there were 3 inches or so below the top of the rib cage.
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
IAhunter, I'd love to have seen the picture that deer after it was skinned and the meat/shoulders removed. That hit looks like another classic above the spinal cordhit.
 There is simply no way to hit below the actual vertebral column without taking out the lungs and/or the dorsal aorta. (unless the hitis too farback) The diaphram constricts on exhalation, the lungs don't fall away from the inside of the ribs. The pleura (area between the lungs and chest wall) is very thin. Too thin for a broadhead to pass through. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
These pics have been floating around for awhile but they really show how low the vertebral column goes.
This hit is a 'spine' shot. Two inches higher and the deer probably would have run off and lived.   |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
That picture is hard to beleive! Wow!
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
now that is wild!! WOW!!
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RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: IAhuntr ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt The arrow was most definitely ABOVE the spine as Rob stated. As far as the "hollow spot" "no man's land" stuff goes, it's a myth. I am not trying to start that great debate all over, but I can assure you after field dressing/butchering well over 100 deer and having two close friends who are wildlife biologists, if you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. It is possible to hit above the spine and cause nothing more than a flesh wound barring infection. If it is below the spine and good left/right the lungs are taken out resulting in a quick, clean kill. Hisentry hole on the other side was a bit higher, but it positively passed below the spine, just through the top of the chest cavity, and appeared to missed both lungs.The holes in the top of the chect cavity were quite evident upon dressing.No hemorage was identified at the top of either lung. Theprevious arrow andblood trail was consistant with a flesh wound. The lungs are somewhat free-floating in the cavity, and it is possible for the lungs partially deflatedduring aheavy exhaleto move a bit within the cavity leaving a gap up top. Won't happen very often, but it certainly did in this case, and this deer was remarkably well healed for such a recent wound. Ley me clarify, I believe a deer can survive on one lung, it has been proven, and I've seen it first hand. Having said that, I believe that the entrance wound in the above pic was most likely above the spine, missing the closest lung, resulting in a one lung hit. I will not be careful with my wording. If the entrance had been as low as the exit, the deer would have never been around for someone else to shoot. Once again, if a projectile enters below the spine and passes through the rib cage, the result is a dead deer. There is no "area" below the spine, above the lungs, that can result in a "superficial wound". As others have said, I don't think alot of people understand how low the spine lies and that the lungs take up the entire rib cage when the deer is alive. The lungs are not the size that they are when you are holding them in your hand after field dressing as they are when the deer is on it's feet. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: Schultzy ORIGINAL: BigTiny I never heard of no-mans-land until this year (I'm new at this). A friend of mine shot a buck out of his box stand opening day of rifle season and he just wandered off. A couple of days later he shot the same buck and dropped him. You could see the wound went all the way thru without hitting anything important. Pretty big exit wound, but no critical damage. Maybe given time the buck would have died of infection, but he made it thru a few days no problem. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt Ley me clarify, I believe a deer can survive on one lung, it has been proven, and I've seen it first hand. Having said that, I believe that the entrance wound in the above pic was most likely above the spine, missing the closest lung, resulting in a one lung hit. I will not be careful with my wording. If the entrance had been as low as the exit, the deer would have never been around for someone else to shoot. Once again, if a projectile enters below the spine and passes through the rib cage, the result is a dead deer. There is no "area" below the spine, above the lungs, that can result in a "superficial wound". As others have said, I don't think alot of people understand how low the spine lies and that the lungs take up the entire rib cage when the deer is alive. The lungs are not the size that they are when you are holding them in your hand after field dressing as they are when the deer is on it's feet. |
RE: Arrow found in gun kill.
ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt ORIGINAL: IAhuntr ORIGINAL: rdy2hnt The arrow was most definitely ABOVE the spine as Rob stated. As far as the "hollow spot" "no man's land" stuff goes, it's a myth. I am not trying to start that great debate all over, but I can assure you after field dressing/butchering well over 100 deer and having two close friends who are wildlife biologists, if you place an arrow/bullet in the chest cavity of a deer, behind the shoulder, it is a dead deer.........period. It is possible to hit above the spine and cause nothing more than a flesh wound barring infection. If it is below the spine and good left/right the lungs are taken out resulting in a quick, clean kill. Hisentry hole on the other side was a bit higher, but it positively passed below the spine, just through the top of the chest cavity, and appeared to missed both lungs.The holes in the top of the chect cavity were quite evident upon dressing.No hemorage was identified at the top of either lung. Theprevious arrow andblood trail was consistant with a flesh wound. The lungs are somewhat free-floating in the cavity, and it is possible for the lungs partially deflatedduring aheavy exhaleto move a bit within the cavity leaving a gap up top. Won't happen very often, but it certainly did in this case, and this deer was remarkably well healed for such a recent wound. Ley me clarify, I believe a deer can survive on one lung, it has been proven, and I've seen it first hand. Having said that, I believe that the entrance wound in the above pic was most likely above the spine, missing the closest lung, resulting in a one lung hit. I will not be careful with my wording. If the entrance had been as low as the exit, the deer would have never been around for someone else to shoot. Once again, if a projectile enters below the spine and passes through the rib cage, the result is a dead deer. There is no "area" below the spine, above the lungs, that can result in a "superficial wound". As others have said, I don't think alot of people understand how low the spine lies and that the lungs take up the entire rib cage when the deer is alive. The lungs are not the size that they are when you are holding them in your hand after field dressing as they are when the deer is on it's feet. You're absolutely correct rdy2hnt. I shot a doe last year that was just an inch or so lower than this picture (upper wound) and I spined her. The spine on a deer is much lower than alot of people believe. If more people would butcher their own deer or at least do a thorough post-field-dressing inspection, they'd see this. Take a look at Christine's picture again. The farther forward you go on a deer, the lower the spine is. |
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