Are hunters selfish??
 

I see lots of stuff on the boards that makes me feel this way sometimes..........and a chat with a guy at the hunting club last week made me think about it even more. Here are some examples of what I mean.

Whenever a thread shows up of a dead one someone found it is always filled with comments like "What a shame"......or "Too bad a car hit him and not a hunter"........I never understood that. Why is it a "shame" because he died on the road........but it's not a "shame" when we kill him??.........the deer is dead either way so he ain't any happier with either scenerio. Just seems selfish to think the ending of a life is a "waste" unless we got to end it on our terms.

I hear many guys say they have tons of land to hunt and many many stands as well...........so much so that many stands don't even get hunted in a given season.........yet how often do we hear about those people offering any of those spots to other hunters?? This is the conversation I had the other day.........with a guy who said he didn't even hunt 13 of his stands last year, I asked him why he didn't let someone else hunt from them a couple times especially if they weren't so fortunate as to have as many options..............his answer was F-That!!!....no one's killing a buck out of my stands but me. With all the talk recently about not wanting to share hunting land with even 1 other person I just wonder how selfish our sport is becoming.

How about the stories that we hear about never telling anyone what you see or about a good buck and so on out of fear that your spot will turn into grand central station the next day..........I get that (to a point) but I wonder how much of that is really just a selfish desire to keep something for yourself and not wanting anyone else to have similar success.

Just thinking out loud.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

The animal would be used as table fare and memories of an awesome hunt. Road kill is just a total waste of the animal.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I agree on the meat point 100%...........however, I think you would agree that the comments are VERY RARELY about the meat.

The "memories" part falls right into what I am saying..........when I see a roadkilled animal I feel bad for the animal........not for myself because I didn't get to kill him.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Some people are absolutely selfish--like my uncle who won't let me hunt at his hunting spot (which he doesn't own) because he knows that I might shoot a big one there. Also, people who shoot tons of deer and don't even eat all the meat.

Everyone gets so competetive in this sport because they all want to be the best. That's what's ruining the sport. It's a competition for everyone.

I could go on all day...

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Very interesting topic.

Regarding point 1...I feel that a deer getting hit by a car is a shame. Getting eaten by natural predators or killed by a hunter isn't. I don;t know why I feel that way but I do. I hate seeing deer get hit by cars. personally I think if people weren't morons and knew how to drive, they'd avoid many deeer, but that is a whole nother topic.

Regarding the other points, I really don't see it as selfish. Does anyone here share thier wife? I guess some people are into that,[8D] but normally that is not the case. Many guys have invested a lot of time and effort to get those spots and may need them in years to come as other places they have disappear. In some cases, gaining permission is contingent on bringing NO ONE else to the property.

Again with not telling others about bucks seen/taken, its just self preservation of allowing yourself an enjoyable hunt. No one wants thier spots ruined, by it being grand central station. And sadly, guys have to be that way because of others inconsideration to overrun someones spots. It happens all the time. It would be great to be able to tell guys where you hunt and still have it be good2-3 years down the road, but sometimes it is just like opening the flood gates. It's not about NOT wanting others to have success, its about keeping a place where one has a chance at success.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I rather look at the positive side of hunters like all the meat that is donated for whatever reason motavated them to do so. I tend to look for positives instead of negatives but you pose a good question just the same;).
Your 1st question I feel has a lot of merit in your thinking with the answer you posed forbuckeyebuckntr's reply.
The 2nd part of your question is pure selfishness. I see maturity happeningafter years of hunting where hunters would rather have someone else make a harvest other than themself and will go to great efforts totry and make that happen. Maybe this guy just hasn't killed enough yet.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Nothing goes to waste in the wild.A road-killed deer will feed alot of critters for awhile

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

it is a waste.. period.. wouldnt you rather take the buck instead of it getting hit? i would but maybe thats just me. I would rather get the animal.. mount it.. be able to say i bagged him.. and save the person some $ on their car, besides if he was gonna die either way whats itmatter?Also about not letting people use your stand.. well they are your to do as you please, you found them and set them up ( more than likley ) so why shouldnt you do what you please with them.. and if i had someone shoot a large deer off my land i would be happy for them but i would rather it be me ... unless it was a CLOSE friend or relative.. either way though.. i do let people hunt my spots.. and i am carried hunting alot to and allowed to hunt other peoples spots... i prolly dont sound too bright and im not trien to piss anyone off but thats how i feel

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

A road kill does make alot of people feel bad includeing myself because it realy aint natural for a wild animal to die that way, but by being hunted whether or not it is a human hunting them or wolves or whatever predator that is natural. As far as someone else hunting these stands maybe some family members yes but a total stranger no, because I put alot of time into my hunting spots and I don't want them wrecked by someone stinking or urineateing or smokeing or whatever to cause the spots to go bad!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

All I read was the title of this thread, and my answer will be a simple "Yes, hunter's are extremely selfish. Not every single one of them, but as a whole we are."

Lock the thread.

Oh, wait.....

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Futhermore, our greed, selfishness, and losing sight of why we are hunting in the first place will continue to degrade our sport until the average Joe is no longer able to afford hunting the way we knew it 10 years ago, which barely resembles hunting as we know it today anyways.

Now I'm done. ;)

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

There may be senarios that would make us selfish, but this is'nt one. To see a dead animal and to wish that you could have harvested it is not selfish its natural. I go into Bass Pro shops and look at all the trophy animals and I wish I could have killed everyone of 'em. That doesn't make me selfish it makes me human.

I would like to add, that I'm glad I don't hunt with the people you guys hunt with. The people I hunt with are good, ethical, friendly, and all around good guys.

HNIJustin- You must hunt with some real chithead, no good SOB's.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I think that the reason most make replies about it being a waste are because of how the deer died.

A deer is a magnificent animal of which we all admire. To die along a hiway or to drown in a pond doesn't seem to be a very fitting end to such an admired creature.

Just picture , if you will, a deer getting hit with a car. See it in your mind. See the car swerve, hear the brakes screech, listen to that horrible thud. Watch the deer try to get up amongst the broken glass and plastic. See it struggle as it tries to get up, just to fall down with broken legs.

Now picture this. Seea deer crossing a frozen pond. Hear the ice creek. listen as the deer crashes through with a splash. Watch it struggle to get out of its situation. You get the idea.

Now imagine this.Watch as the hunter slowly turns his head toward the sound of rustling leaves. See the deer as it slowly, calmly works its way toward the waiting hunter. Listen to the birds and feel the slight breeze as the sun burns off the morning chill. Smell the autumn air as a squirrel drops an acorn out of a nearby oak. See the hunter slowly draw his bow and take aim.

There is a difference.

This reminds me of a buck a friend of mine got a few years ago. This buck was truly a very big mature animal. He had been seen a couple of time in the small area with new homes being built all around. My buddy was hunting on a hillsideof a small woodlot. He shot the deer with his bow and started his tracking job. He found the buck about a hundred yards away as it tried to make its way through a roadside dump. It was found laying in the garbage. It was a beautiful buck but my friends and I agree, it wasn't a very fitting end to for it to die lay in a bunch of trash thrown out along a road. It was kinda sad and not the kind of place for in the field photos.

But yes, hunters are selfish in other ways.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Im guilty as charged, i am a hunter and it is sometimes competitive.Im a bit selfish as in not sharing auxzillery stands because i worked hard putting them up and deer movement is not always around them at times so they just sit idle until the time is right. I would rather harvest a buck than see it laying on the side of the road from meeting someones bumper, because i love hunting. Its the sport that drives me. I hunt ethically so that is the importain thing. Just thought i would share some pics of a buck that we thought was stuck in the mud up to his chest. We did try and free him, pulling him up the steep embankment with a rope only to find out his back legs were parilized and had to call the authorities to put him down. (In my opinion) it was ASHAME that a car hit him instead of my arrow, but thats just me. enjoy the pics and take care. if you look hard, he was missing his right eye. I did try and salvage some meat but had to throw it out, it was awful, i guess from the addreniline he had pumping in him. if you look at the bank, you can see he had been there for several days. he had pawed into it pretty deep trying to get out.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I also hate to see a road killed deer not from as selfish perspective but from an appreciation I have for the animal.I don't want to see any animal die under the tire of a vehicle.(possible exception coyote's:D)
As it relates to selfishness in the field I am guilty.I spend a lot of time and effort locating good to great hunting area's and I am not about to bring in others to hunt in those spots.Not to say I wont bring a nephew or trusted friend in to them,but that is about it.If someone is a decent person and they want to hunt together and cover completely new ground let's go and we will have a great time.
Like many die hard hunters I am very guarded with the area's I hunt.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I think it is a real shame when a deer gets hit, plastered and sometimes completely obliterated. Not because I wanted to kill it, It's just not a fitting way for any animal to die. But the truth is that it is a part of everyday life. it happens all the time. And yes selfish would be a good way to describe most, however, I don't blame anyone for being that way. I don't generally share a whole lot of info about my hunting spots, to me it's nobody elses business. If they want a good spot, they can do their own homework and find their own spot. Don't get me wrong, i'm not completely cold hearted, i've taken my neighbor boys and put them in good spots and most importantly, showed them what makes it a good spot, and helped them get started. I've done the same for others including my wife. When it comes to being competetive with others is where I draw my line. I harvest what makes ME happy, not my buddy who shot a booner or two.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Alot of people are selfish... some of them just happen to be hunters. On the other hand, I know some hunters who are very generous and helpful. We need to look no farther then this forum with the great advice givenand seeing basically strangers inviting eachother to go hunting.

I guess I would fall into both groups. I've helped many othersget started intohunting, or finding spots to hunt or help them hunt. Will I give up mybest spots to hunt... not hardly to most. Only a very, very select few who I trust. Do I tellevery Joe Blow where I've been seeing good bucks ?? Never!!

Is it a shame a big buck gets killed by a car. Well it sucks to see a doeor fawn getkilled so I suspect so. :eek:


Tim

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I agree with this, it is self preservation. you give hunter an inch we'll take 5 acres, just the way it goes. But, it isn't total selfishness, it is jealousy, desire, and human nature.
The deer you see laying dead on the side of the road is a sad sight, but it happens. I always wish I could have shot the big bucks that I see dead on the road, on someones wall, or in pictures, but that is just because i want to take a large buck, with my bow, after doing lots of work to get him, but have not done so yet. I guess I would say it is not fair to the deer to have to die that way, but it is our fault it did, so what can you do.
I would let someone use my extra stands, but not anyone, I'm sure you all know what I mean. I hunt a small area that has way too many hunters on it, but we all respect eachother, we use our own stands, which we help eachother put up. We stay out of certain areas because someone olse hunts it, but I don't like new people coming in, and there really isn't room, not just for the extra hunter, but for the errors that may occur to ruin the area.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

You know, just sitting here reading and realized out of all the deer I've seen dead on the side of the road I have never seen a buck, they have all been does. Maybe someone scouped them up before I drove by or something but I have never seen a dead buck on the highways. I've seen pictures and heard some of the comments mentioned above about what a waste and so forth.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Yaknow, if hunting and hunters that I ran into were like some of you guys say it is ... I would take up another hobby! I find mostly friendly people in this sport ... I think some of you need to step back and think of life outside of HNI.

Also, if you are a pessimistic person, you'll see negative in most things ..eg. "all they do on HNI is fight .... they hate trophy hunters ... they hate meat hunters..... blah ,blah blah"

If you are a positive person, you will see; open invitations to other people's lands to hunt all over the country, guys that make you laugh and lift your spirits .... fun competition ... people to pray for you ... people to pray for ... life long friendships forming ... etc.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I don't care if it's a buck, doe, skunk or ground hog, NO animal deserves to get hit by a vehicle, for me, it's simply sad regardless or rack or lack there of.

Exactly what I said but thought more about it, then opened it to read more.

Exactly

I'd hate to single out hunters as selfish, no more or less than any other community on the planet today. Today the world is selfish, it's a ME oriented philosophy anymore. The world lacks respect, common courtesy, politeness and an all around sense of neighborly attitude. AS A WHOLE, because there are many exceptions. We certainly don't need to single it down to "hunters".

One of the most selfish "people" in the world today are PETA. I know there are some very meaningful individuals that belong to PETA that are misguided but PETA is selfish in the respect that they care nothing for the animals but simply the agenda and the money behind the agenda.

But alas atlasman, many in the hunting industry are very selfish, or perhaps we could use the term competitive, jealous or simply rude. As a whole I'd like to think we are a great group of people but the more I read of treestands being stolen, game cameras being stolen, trespassers (actually posting property could be considered selfish but necessary), animals being taken away from the rightful shooter etc, it's becoming harder and harder to see ourselves as a great bunch of brothers and sisters but that's the way of the world today. I see here on HNI as I've been here longer than most (NOT ALL) but most. This was a very close tight community at one time, today it seems it's at odds with itself and many of you have seen the change as well.

I look at this way, even with deer, mice or people, too many of any one species in one area will always result in conflict and deaths. Deer will kill each other to compete for food and mating, is man any different. We alone have the "mentality" to know right from wrong, we need to remember to have common courtesy.

That's a tried and true conversation in many areas, is it selfish or competitive?

I gladly give my stands up to my "friends" who I know will do the right things and return the same common courtesy. Obviously we cannot do this for everyone or that "spot" no longer exists as is. Matt/PA is coming the first 3 days of spring gobbler to hopefully take one of "my" gobblers. I'm hoping to get him his first before I fill my 2 tags.

I've had Matt in a couple of my best deer stands. I put Q2INWHITETAILS in front of his first buck in years, GMMAT had put me in one of his best deer locations and now in his turkey blind, I have hunts scheduled with others as well where we can share the stands, woods, comoradories etc.. There are a ton of selfish people in the world, some are hunters and we see that in the hunting industry, some are antihunters, non hunters, professional athletes, the guy down the street.

We also see some very generous and nonselfish acts in the hunting industry as well. We don't need to only point out the negative. We see outfitters donating hunts to the less fortunate, disabled, kids etc...we see our own members here send money to a total "stranger" to buy a Christmas present for another "stranger" here because of his comical post, antler necklaces and respect. (sending money to me to buy Cardeers camera). We see members here donate equipment to other hunters, a member who spent his money to send us all DVD's of the contest, members returning the favor and sending product, HNI sending out free product, prayers being asked for and sent, get togethers, friendships, shared hunts, money, etc......We mostly here of the negative, let's remember the positives too.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Thank you for that Tony!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I just read your reply ..... great minds think alike .... now we just gotta find some ...[8D]

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Good replys Preacher and Rob.

All this gloom and doom of hunting, I just don't see it. Me and my buddies are have the time of our lives!!:D

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Are hunters selfish? I'd say no more than our society at large. It IS the Me Generation, after all.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

You guys are right in that the hunting community is a reflection of todays society in general. HOWEVER ..... this topic is ridiculous. Someone thinks that because someone else is not sitting in their treestand that they should be welcomed to it???? or someone got permission on a tract of hunting land so all their buddies should also get the free invite???? Sounds like left-wing liberal thinking to me. What about the efforts and work that a hunter puts into gaining permission and hanging stands not to mention time spent preparing and money spent buying the stands. I guess those hunters with the gumption to get off their butts and prepare to succeed should just let the lazy faction ofthe hunting community help themselves to our efforts ........ isn't this sorta like the lazy-arse unemployed and illegal immigrants liiving off the working mans wages??????? yep, the hunting community is also feeling the results of a society that is turning left-wing liberal!

If this thread was started by a hard working patriotic American hunter it would be titled "ARE HUNTERS LAZY?" and revealed how lazy hunters want to take advantage of others work and efforts!!!!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

You are a real piece of work Don.................and you have managed to do exactly what I have seen you repeatedly gripe about over the last few days.

TOTALLY miss the point.


:eek:

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Are you willing to share your paycheck with people who are too lazy to get a job? How selfish of you!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Simple answer, yes. Probably no more than most otherpeople but definitely yes. Certainly not all and that is what is important. I like the posts from Rob and PT. I have seen all kinds of jealousy and selfishness in hunting but choose to focus more on the good aspects or people. I have hunted with lots of different hunters over the years and realistically there are only a handful that I still hunt with regularily because they were more aboutenjoying the hunt and our time afield thanbeing competitive(even though we definitely still compete, there is a friendly comradery to it and a genuine excitement and happinessforwhoever scored). We learn from each others mistakes and can't wait to get back to camp to relay our sightings/stories.We enjoy taking new people out(young or old) and have found that a good way to find hunters that huntlike us is to mentor new ones and try to instill some of the older hunting traditions into them.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Not even close to the same thing.........wow, you are on a roll ;)

I love how you assume the worst about all other hunters.........everyone else but you is lazy, makes excuses, and has no willpower I guess :eek:


Let me ask you something Don..........what would hunting be like if even 1/2 of the guys out there employed your strategy of hording hundreds or thousands of acres of land to hunt and shared it with no one else??

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

A road kill animal if it can be salvaged is the same as the deer you arrowed last night and waited till the next day to track. Meat is meat as far as I am concerned unless it is wasted. Do I feel it is a shame that someone hit it with a vehicle rather than me getting a shot at it. No. I think it is a shame if the meat is wasted whether roadkill or lost deer from poor shot, tracking too quick ect..

I live in a state where I would have to say roughly 45 to 50% of land is leased by hunting clubs, the rest is either private/leased or private and public land. I have access to 20 acres of my own private land and it is totally surrounded by hunting clubs. These guys placed stands on all four sides/corners of my land right on the property lines. They have over 1000 acres surrounding my land, yet they choose to pressure me and the deer on my property. Do you think I would share a stand with people of this caliber? Hell no. I scout my land, hang my on stands, ect, ect.. If one of my "friends" wanted to hunt one of these stands, yes I would allow it. If someone else who I knew could not afford a hunting lease wanted to hunt with me, fine. Am I going to let either get off without doing any work like dragging the deer, skinning, processing, or sharing the meat? Hell no. I did them a favor, and I expect some sort of gratitude in return. Nothing in this world is free.

As for the statements about free-loading bums wanting everything handed to them for nothing, I agree. I simply can not stand the fact that some people live off of me and the other working people of this world. If you are able, then you should do. If you are not then I don't mind helping. A gift is one thing, an able body wanting something for nothing is another.

Atlas, have you looked at the stats of private hunting clubs in the U.S. lately? Do you realize these people are employing this strategy, though not so much on an individual basis. Now, why should we single Don out for his hard work at aquiring land to hunt, while these people only have to pay the lease while others less fortunate have to find another place to hunt. It's all around me here. I don't know how it is for others.

Just my 2c.

LT

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Guys like you would be playing golf ..... but only if someone else picked you up and drove you to the golf course


Oh and by the way, besides the very small tract of land that I own and hunt, I also hunt 6 other properties by asking permission from other landowners. (every other human being on planet earth has the same chance toask these same landowners for hunting permission) Am I to dictate to them who hunts their land? It is their choice to allow or deny others permission to hunt, not mine. I just make an effort to seek out those landowners who normally dont allow hunting and then try to gain access by prooving that I am a responsible and ethical hunter AND by remembering these folks by offering help to them in whatever form I see that they might need.

Maybe the next time I try to access one of these places I should say "Hello Mr Smith. My name is Don Higgins I would like the priveledge of hunting your property and I would also like to have other hunters come by and hunt from my stands on the days that I am not here. I am not sure yet who they will be but it will be the kind of people who dont put out any effort to stop by on their own or hang their own stands. They would probably stop by and ask personally but every Tuesday that have to file for unemployment and on Fridays they get their check in the mail and go to the bank so they are really busy. I know you are really particular about your property Mr Smith so I will only tell a few people about it."

You call it "selfish", I call it "lazy"

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

It is that way with any many things in life. There will always be people that are thatway. You find out many times who your friends/family really are when money, land, bucks, etc are involved. I read in a bowhunting magazine how 2 life long friends became enemies over a buck they both shot. Mind u, that deer was a record deer. Now they have tossed their freindship in the trash. I wonder how important that deer will be when they pass away. In my business, I see too many people die unexpectedly, shortened lives; the material things we have really, really don't matter. Remember, all leave this earth the same way, with nothing. All are equal then.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Yea Don...............we know, everyone but you is a lazy freeloader :eek:

"Guys like you".....................how funny it is that someone who tries to make money off other hunters has such a low opinion of them in general.

I'll tell you what you have a better chance of happening........other people with more money then you will just start buying up the hunting rights to land if they can't find any on their own.........what will your answer be to that??.........I guess then YOU will be considered the lazy one for not making enough money to compete ;)


You and everyone else..............even all us lazy hunters ;)


Not only do you continue to totally miss the point but your general outlook and opinion of other hunters in general is nothing short of disgraceful.


Exactly my point............I am trying to encourage inner reflection and all you have done is turn that around into yet another opportunity to tell everyone how lazy they are and what is wrong with THEM.

Says a lot.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Are hunters selfish? Yes. Are hunters generous? Yes. Honest? Yes. Dishonest? Yes. lazy, ambitious, rude, polite...? Yes, yes, yes yes... We're all human and display the entire spectrum of good and bad attributes. Trying to pidgeon hole us is imo a waste of time not to mention kind of silly. I think what we're all talking about here basically is character and ones character reaches into everything we do. Hunting, golf or tiddlywinks, it doesn't matter. If you are a selfish person, then that's what you are. If you hunt, wellthat's just something you do.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

How do you Don, go about that

Do you do this if they don't offer thier property to you or just if they do?
Serious questions, not attact questions.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Isnt it funny how Altas wants to turnmy opinion of himinto my opinion of everyone else. The fact is that Sylvan hit the nail on the head. Hunters as a group reflect every descriptive word; but not as individuals. I am far from the only hunter making the effort to gain hunting permission or hang stands. Why should all of us thousands of "selfish" hunters be doing the work for the "lazy" hunters? I conciously try to avoid puting myself on a pedastal, yet Atlas tries to alienate me from others that way to gain support for his lame position on many issues. ATLAS, ALL HUNTERS ARENT LAZY BUT THOSE WHO ARE DONT DESERVE TO HAVE OTHERS DO THEIR WORK FOR THEM. If someone WANTS to share a stand or hunting area with family and friends that is great but if they dont that doesnt make them selfish.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Rickmur, I sent you a PM

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Just thought the definition would be in order at this point. ;)

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I agree with this way of thinking....this "outlook" (if you will), Don. There's always two ways to look at things....and your phiosophy mirrors mine.

I also liked what Rob/PA wrote.....as I've remembered something we discussed, once (THIS topic). Rob once told me that he would share his hunting woods with ANYONE.......who hunted like HE does. Now I know enough about him to understand he's sincere. He put a fellow board member on a buck just this Fall in his best stands...and was ELATED when that member scored (and for another team!!). I've told Rob that NO DEER was "off limits" when he hunts "my" woods.....and I meant it. I'd be AS excited if HE posted photos of "the bull" (a buck I have my eye on)when he hunts here, this Fall. He's got first crack at a big Tom this weekend, HERE. I'll take my bow and employ my best "JAKEinator" impression....if the situation calls for it. he's driving 8 hours to enjoy my hunting properties.....and I HOPE he scores. I'll have other opportunities.

But Rob hunts like I do. ANY OF YOU that I respect as being ethical, hard-working, law-abiding hunters....who respect your quarry.....are ABSOLUTELY welcome to 'share' a blind or tract of land with me. I'd be pulling for ya.

Atlas....this IS a good post.