RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Yes, deep inside we all are. If we could hunt an entire area by ourselves almost 99% would not even blink an eye. When a picture shows up of a massive animal the first thing that goes through a person's mind is I wish I'd taken that one. It is a sad thing when an animal goes to waste, but how many animals get wounded everyyear and are lost to everyone because of poor shooting or circumstances. Here in Colorado the DOW's estimate to wounding loss is 15 to 20 percent of the total harvest. I'd say they are right on the money. But does anyone think of that when it comes to animals and wasted life.

I hear people saying what a waste of meat and that is true. But how many actually go out hunting with the thought of filling the freezer instead of the thought what if the big one shows up today. I think today's hunters don't have to rely on game to survive its a personal preference to do so. Saying that, in the future game might be what alot of people do survive on when the rich control how you live. But if meat was an issue I'd rather be caught poaching someone's cow than a deer or elk.

Which brings me to my next personal point of hunting. I enjoy eating elk,moose,whitetail,wildboar, and bison. Those are my personal choices of wild game that tastegood to me. Muledeer,antelope,bear, and caribou are not favorites of mine. Saying that do I still hunt the muleys,goats,bear, and caribou? Yes. This is where I become selfish. I will hunt them for the hunt. I still eat them but mostly I won't shoot something I'm not ready to hang on my wall. And to me that's being selfish. But also being conservationist minded to. If I don't see a decent animal I don't shoot. I perfer to let the smaller animals continue on living. But that's where it becomes hunting or counting coue if you prefer.

I'm not a trophy hunter or a waster of wildlife but I'm not one to fill freezers to the brim just for the sake of doing so. I hunt to hunt, I enjoy the challenge because it's not kill. Everyone knows that after the kill the enjoyment last's a short time and the work begins. Meat is the bottom line when everything is over that is how you pay your respects to the animal.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

What's even funnier is that you base your opinions of hunters on whether or not people liked your book.........even though you have stated earlier that you don't care


This is where you lose track of the topic because your mind IMMEDIATELY goes into negative gear about "other" hunters.......you have such tunnel vision that you can't even consider the possibility of other hunters NOT being lazy (and I'm sure many more negative things as well). You didn't even discuss either of the other scenerios I mentioned ( I wonder why??)

The question NEVER was why don't you just give away all your hard work and efforts to someone who is "lazy"........that's just what your mind turned it into. :eek:


Like here for example??










You don't need my help Don.........you're doing fine all by yourself. The more you say the more clear the truth becomes.


Can you show me where anyone suggested someone needs to share their stands........or anything else for that matter with someone who is "lazy"??

Where did you read this??

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Why don't you just come out and say it Atlas? Go ahead. It's actually rather easy. Like this.... Don, I think your book is terrible on many levels. Then quietly step away from the computer. It's OK, it really is. I mean you have already belittled him in front of so many here that you can't possibly be worried about hurting his feelings.

LT

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

He knows that already.............and I couldn't care less about Don or his book. This is my thread and I am trying to keep it from getting derailed by his petty rants. I (and many others) happen to think it is a good topic.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Oh, I forgot, this is your party and you can be biased against whoever YOU desire. Poor form.

LT

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

No.........it's my thread and I would like it to stay on topic.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I let whoever use my stands, most of the land out here is crown land so I don't really have the right to say someone can't use it, if its there go ahead!!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Now....I don't care WHO ya are.....that there's FUNNY!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Oh I'm sorry Mr. Atlas. I forgot it was an untrashed thread about 3 pages back. That darn first amendment thingy, oh what did it say :eek:......?

I'm Out.

LT

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Geez, where are the moderators when you need them. I thought there is a bashing warning!!!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

But it's not funny when you say it?

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

There was???............and what product got "bashed"??

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I was referring to the bashing of each other, fellow hunters. Just to be clear, my opinion means nothing to anyone but myself and I don't feel the need to ram it down everyone's throat.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

De De Dee Duh Dee .....

what memory.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Gotcha.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

This thread is not about Don's book................What's your point?

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

It is a shame when a car hits any animal and we as a hunter did not get to hunt it. The meat has gone to waste and it usually ends up rotting on the side of the road or the DOT picks it up and it ends up in a landfill. When a property owner gives me access and sole permission to hunt his land that is what he means, my family and I areto hunt it only. I can't be dragging all of my buddiesonto this private landbecause they have nowhere to hunt because they are too lazy to go out and beat on some doors or research the public lands. I will be kicked off of his land and rightfully so. Even if it is my private family land, why have someother hunter in there too and risk the chance of him spooking a big boy out of the timber for good or worse yet, have him take a trophy when I am the one doing all of the work to pay for the land.Yes, I am selfish as a hunter in these repects. I also don't share my wife, my Harley, ormy bows. Some things in life aren't meant to be shared.;)

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

You are the one who inserted the above post into the thread. DE de DEE

LT

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

You know, most hunters these days are city folk. At best, suburbanites. They are people that have real lives with real jobs, families and other commitments to their churches and communities. Most have limited finances andcan't go running around the countryside at will because of fuel costs and such. Some are disabled and are physically incapable of doing a great many things they'd love to be able to do. There are tons and tons of things that preventhunters from going out and working over the woods to prepare forthe season.

So, certain people need to lighten up, wise upand stop implying that those who have different life priorities, whodon't put in the exact same effort in the exact same way are 'lazy.'

I think this is what atlasman is trying to get across, just isn't the way he's put it into words.

Or WAS trying to get across before all the b*tch slapping back and forth got started.:eek:

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

heck, Don......

With the exception of my wife.....you can use all those things I have, too;).

Other than that.....YOUR experience with your land (and landowners) mirrors mine. I have sole rights to hunt it.....SOLELY....by THEIR request.

Funny thing is......

When I went to the landowner that has the 10 acre parcel DIRECTLY IN FRONT (and adjacent to) the parks system......asking for his permission to bowhunt it.....he walked me around the property to show me the property lines. On a whim....I asked him if it had ever been hunted. He said "No". When I asked him why......he said..."Nobody's ever asked"!

I'll shoot a few deer, there, this Fall. NOBODY can believe I have access to these woods. There will also be those who accuse me of hunting restricted land. they didn't ask and they'll do ANYTHING to discredit someone else and their accomplishments. We see it happen ALL THE TIME.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

The picture LT...........the picture was shown in reference to the pedestal comment.

:eek:

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Well, maybe next time you should use your own Picture. After all, it is "Your" thread that matters.

LT

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

We covered this a long time ago..........and it is agreed that the meat (if wasted) is a shame. However, in all honesty how many times do you see comments in threads like that about the meat?? Few, if any.........it's always the thought of a nice buck "wasted" because a hunter didn't kill it.........just interesting that many first thoughts go that way.


No one ever suggested breaking the landowners wishes. You are adding things in on your own there.


Question answered...............and an interesting response..........you depend on the sharing of the landowner in situation #1 but then refuse to do the same when the tables are turned in situation #2.

Pretty much why I asked the question............we RELY on the generosity of others because I doubt there are many guys here that hunt ONLY land they own.............yet when it comes time to "pay it forward" so to speak......that is a whole other story.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Wasn't my comment.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Not directed at you, Atlas....but to everyone as a whole....

I agree with Don.

WHY should "we" allow others to reap the benefits of "Our" hard work? I don't know about anyone else.....but "I" scout the land I'm going to hunt. I make sure I'm not intrusive to the herd.....I practice scent control.....and I'll be damned if I'm going to go through what I do .....just to set up someone who isn't as conscience about the same.

Again, though......if you hunt like "I" do (practice the same measure/hunt ethically/hunt legally/adhere to my harvest requests.....i.e. what I'm trying to make of the herd I'm hunting).....there's a good chance you can share my hunting grounds. I WILL NOT "charity" you a buck, though. Call me what you will. I won't do it.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

For the same reason you expect all the landowners you seek permission from to do so. You RELY on the generosity of other landowners to open up their land to you don't you?


I wish someone would show me where this was suggested.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Fair question, Atlasman....

I don't EVER "Expect" landowners to allow me permission to hunt their land. I put forth my best effort at gaining access to it.....and rely on their best judgement as to whether or not the "fit" will be one that falls into what they had intended their land to be used for......or how they'd like for their land to be treated.

INEVER "Expect" them to allow me to hunt. I ask for their blessing. BIG difference.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I agreewith your above post(#65 I think)to a point GMMAT. If a person has some goodland to hunt and are not maximizing their oppurtunity then I feel in no way obligated to help them out. On the opposite side of that If someone I know doesn't have decent land or has hunted hard and been having a rough season I don't mind them hunting with me or helping them out. That applies to new hunters as well, young and old. If I take someone hunting I want them to be in good spots and have some encounters with deer and hopefully harvest one to get them hooked and help our sport/lifestyle/hobby/ tradition, whatever you want to call it. My good friend and newest hunting partner just completed his second deer season. His first season he killed a doe and a two weeks later his first buck hunting with me. This season he killed several deer and took a nice 7 pointer for his first blackpowder deer out of a piece of woods I have been hunting for several years. He is a quick study and already proving to be a skilled woodsman and great hunter and I am glad to say I might have had something to do with that and in that sense I think it ismy reponsibility and pleasureto help "some" hunters because in the end it helps us all even if it means helping them out with stands or places to hunt. Could I have been selfish and not really took him out there? Yeah probably, but I got a lot more enjoyment out of the way I did it, the "pay it forward"method, so to speak.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

But you do RELY on it...........and when you get shot down it's a bummer right??

What if they all said "No way am I gonna charity you a buck"........go get your own land.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Something that I feel is missing here is hunting styles.
I don't post here ofter because I have so little in common with most of you.
I bow hunt on land I own only,and because it is mine I can use any stands I want and hunt them when and how I want. I have not shot a doe in twenty years and have no desire to ever shoot another.I don't have to kill to enjoy a hunt.
I shoot a ten year old Hoyt with a single pin set at 20 yards as feel no need to chance shooting further at a living deer.My arrows are tipped with razor sharp three blade thunderheads because I do not need to see for my self that anything mechanical can and will fail. A deer deserves better.
So many have lost what hunting is about to actually make me want to spend any time with them.And with the keyboard balls expressed in this forum any time spent around a campfire would end up in a free for all.
Yea I'm selfish!!!!!!!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I think the buck being killed by a car vs. the enjoyment of a hunter killing a buck has been covered so I won't comment on that.

As far as hunters being selfish when it comes to land/stands I guess I'm a little different than most. I get great enjoyment out of setting a friend or relative up with a "charity" buck. If someone I put in a stand on my land is fortunate enough to kill a big buck I feel like I was just as much a part of killing that buck as they were. IMO the hunting part of it was already accomplished by the scouting, stand location, putting them in the stand at the right moment, etc...

Also some of these people that you set up with a "charity buck" may not have the time or money that I am fortunate enough to have in order to do the legwork. I get (almost;))as muchenjoyment out of seeing the excitement I can provide someoneby killing a buck of their dreams as I do when I kill one. Don't get me wrong, I like killing a mature buck as much as the next guy and that's what I hunt for. But, I'm also willing to share what I have with someone that hasn't enjoyed the success I've had over the years or arent' as fortunate to have the same opportunities.

That being said, I can also see the other side of the coin where a trend towards selfishness has taken place in the hunting community. However I wouldnt' stereotype hunters as being selfish for the most part.I still think the unselfish outweigh the selfish in the huntingworld (at least I hope).

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

NY....... you say that you are different than most .... I say that you are the norm ...... just because a certain guy on here feels one way and states that ALL others feel the way he does, doesn't make it so. I believe most of the guys on here would be happy for others as you stated ....

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Amen to that!

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

After reading this earlier and being in total agreement it got me thinking.A lot of thereplies on this thread say things about "my stand, my land" kind of thing. Nothing wrong with that, but isn't that individual kind of thinking selfish in general, isn't being unselfish thinking about others? Ionly noticed a fewreplies that referenced how we can preserve hunting for our kids, grandkids, great-grandkids,or taking new people hunting. Almost like as long as I can hunt now and I got my spots to go to, then to heck with everybody else(maybe not this extreme). At the rate hunting ground is being gobbled up I am definitely worried about where my kids and their kids will be able to hunt, I would like to think they will have the same kind of oppurtunities I have had but I doubt that will be the case. I also think that as land becomes harder to find new hunter numbers will decline(JMO). Maybe it is not selfishness but rather a sense of helplessness, like awhat can we really do about it kind of thing, I guess I could understand that, but either way it sucks.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

So as not to be misconstrued, further.....I'll reiterate....

I'll put anyone who hunts the way I do on a deer.....and rejoice at their good fortunes. I WILL NOT put just anyone on a deer and tell them to "have at it". THAT is what I meant when I gave the "charity" reference.

If you respect the quarry.....hunt ethically and legally.....and put forth the desire to hunt these animals..........

......there's a good chance you'd be WELCOMED in the woods I have permission to hunt.

I'll smile and take your pictures with your kills. Kudos.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Jeff, I hope that you know I was not referring to you with my previous post ... you are one of many that have made me feel welcome .... I really was referring to NY's idea that he feels different than most .... I disagree ... I believe he feels like most of us here .... sometimes the vocal minority shout over the quiet majority .... if any are wondering if I am referring to you ... if the slipper fits, put it on, if not, don't try and shove it on your big toe like Cinderella's sister ;)

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I didn't "think" so, PT.....but your PM made that clear. Thanks.

If Im not mistaken....YOU are one of the ones I HAVE invited to share the woods with me. I've made that invitation to several.....and I'll hunt with multiple board members in the coming year.

It's like ANYTHING else......

We surround ourselves with people who have similar interests and outlooks. I wouldn't play on a softball team with guys I didn't respect. I wouldn't like it if we had a guy that showed up late.....disrespected team members.....disrepsected the opponent....etc. he wouldn't be welcome on my team.

I see sharing the woods I hunt the same way. Show your respect to the landowner....the quarry.....and the game laws.....and there's a good chance we can share a hunt and my home/hospitality.

Have a good week.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I have helped a ton of guys out my letting them hunt my stands. Some were nonresidents that didnt have a chance to get set up in my state while others were local friends who had legitamet issues as to why they werent prepared; maybe an illness or family matters. I am not against helping out fellow hunters BUT feel no obligation to do it.It comes down to desire once again in many cases. Those that desire to hunt need to realize that there is more to it than walking out and climbing in somebody elses tree. It has nothing to do with kids and the future of hunting either. Opportunities are there for those willing to do it.

I take this same approach towards many issues in todays society-

Those that desire to live in the United States need to follow our laws and come here legally

Those that desire to eat need to get a job

Those that desire to hunt need to find a hunting area, scout and hang stands

etc etc etc

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

I agree with the things you said but I would sayit is our responsibility to think about the future of hunting and ensuring not just our kids but hopefullygenerations to come will have some of the same kind of oppurtunities we have now. That was the only reason I mentioned it, and while everything might be good right now that doesn't mean it willbe that way in 50 years. Introducing new hunters and young kids increases our numbers andcan help us to maintain our strength and therevenue created by our sportmuch of which goes to securing and maintaining publiclands to hunt, and thatis very important.I know many of us sacrificeour time and efforts to do these things and most say it is very rewarding.Here is a question we could ask ourselves,if you had a day off to go hunting and everything was lining up just right and then a couple of days before the hunt you are asked by someone (kid, relative, friend, etc) who is a reponsible person who has shown interest in hunting(that maybe doesn't have the same oppurtunities as you) if you might be able to take them out some time, would you(there is really no wrong answer)? Or would you blow them off because you have had your eye on this spot and this could be the day and I don't want some newbie there to spook the deer. And just taking someone really doesn't do much, unless you are teaching them something, how to be safe/responsible, knowing all game laws and state requirements, how to find land to hunt(public or private) when they are ready to hunt by themselves, and a million other things.

That is true, ecspecially for experienced hunters, but for a lot of others a good mentor sure would help, there is no shortage of people to take hunting just a shortage of mentors sometimes.

RE: Are hunters selfish??
 

Yes, if you want to be good/great at anything you have to be a little selfish.

Do I setup up the best spots for LH only shots, Yes, Do I put stands and do not tell others, yes. Do I lie and say "just saw couple of does"When I saw 5 bucks and the big boy, Yes.


I have also bought paid 3 bows, camo and stands for youth hunters.

I have taken them out hunting and scored deer with them, yes

I have won 3 shot guns at dinners and donated them all to youth hunters.

So what the heck is the questions?

Are guys who hunt mature bucks or consistently kill deer are they selfish? Yes or they would not be successful IMO.

One of my good friends will let anyone hunt his land, all those people who hunt his land are the most selfish people I know. They pay nothing, they move and steal each others stands. If me telling folks like that to go pound sand when they ask to hunt my land is selfish, so be it.

I can tell you out of the 110 members at our club, I would hunt with 10 of those guys. Call me selfish, elitetest or whatever you want. There are certain people in the hunting world I stay away from. If you want to be a great hunter, have them as your best friends. It is bound to rub off;)

There is a great chapter in Joe Brooks book about picking a hunting partner.