Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Isn't it odd that many of us have been on these forums for how many years now and with all the veteran, seasoned hunters here and noone, no one has ever mention hearing it. In fact the members here who I deem the most vetetran, 25 plus years in a treestand, collectively 100's of years between us and no one ever heard it. Now that there are calls out, suddenly everyone is hearing it. Are the deer now using it more? Perhaps people are hearing other hunters use it more? It's a vocalization that has never been documented before the Drury's and suddenly the deer are using it? Have hunters heard it before and just didn't know what they were hearing?

Seriously, why all of a sudden is the roar/growl being heard?

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I personally think it's that hunters have heard it and simply not know what it was. That said, I have yet to hear the roar/growlfor myself. However, every year I hear things while on the stand and wonder to myself...what in the world made that sound. Matter of fact, it happened to me just a couple of days ago.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

What I find funny is the same guys who state "We killed deer 50 years ago without fancy camo" Are the same guys who buy the buck growl. Which is suppose to be for mature deer only.[&:]

The biggest racket in hunting iscalls and scents IMO.

As for hearingthe growl now, well kind of goes in hand with the sugar pill theory.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

It's pure and simple a boondoggle. Marketing at it's best. So one buck makes a different grunt and we have a new $20 call that you "MUST" have if you want to be like the Drury boys who happen to have farms that are planted for deer and managed for deer and all that. Pure marketing. It shall pass.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I think it is just because people know what it is now. I have heard it once in the woods. It was over two years ago when I shot a buck. Right when the arrow hit him he make a sound just like the buck growl, but at the time I had know idea what it was.

If I never see that Drury video I just say the buck make a weird sound, and probably forget about it, but since there is a name for it now I tell that as part of the story.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Muck if you hit me with one of your arrows I make a noise no one heard before too.:D

My dad said the samething, maybe you just pissed him off;)

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Agreed. I have heard it in the past and never thought much of it. After seeing the video, I heard the sound this year again and called it a growl. Mainly because it now has a name.

IMO, the sound that theRoar and Growl make are terrible. I find it sounds better when using the Tru Talker, with a little practice.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Its the same sound we've always heard. Its a drawn out tending grunt.

It isn't a growl, it isn't a roar, its the same tending grunt deer have always made. Its the same sound we've made with our regular grunt calls.

Its a marketing ploy. I bought into it to see what it was all about, but I'm convinced about what it is now.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

LoL. My brother thought that I just pissed him off too.:D

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I agree, marketing at its best. I don't know if I ever heard it so I'll never say for sure. I did hear a mature buck cruising behind a doe make a very long almost constant growl once. Don't know if that qualifies or not.:D

Would I ever use it? Nope. I read too many things that make sense toward not using it. If you're in an area where there aren't mature bucks, I'd say 4 1/2 or older, you'll probably spook more deer than attract.

I agree with calls, but not scents. I've had a lot of success with mock scrapes and hanging scents wicks. Is one better than the other? I don't know. But I've had most of my success with one particular brand.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Me too on mock scrapes, I just take a stick and make a scrape. I do not put anything in it. 85% time a buck starts using it. Only scent I know to work 100% time is a hot doe;) If you have system that is working, and in PA I am all ears!!

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Exactly! I've said on here before, that I can make the "growl" with the grunt call that I have. I heard one make this sound this year. It sounded like the deer burped real loud, like it drank too much coke!

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

1) Yes the Drury brothers are great business men and know how to market and hype a product (I wish I had the talent and resources to do so).

2) Isnt all of the bucks vocabulary some sortof grunt whether it be softand short or long and aggressive

That said i believe the drury's took the grunt to its extreme, a buck at its most aggressive, and gave it a "cool name." Yes it can work just like all of the calls we buy, but be realistic because none of them work all of the time. Even a simple bleat or soft grunt can scare deer away.

BTW-The primos roar makes a great sounding grunt and "roar" and it has the snort wheeze call on top. I now carry this instead of my tru talker.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Never heard the Roar or growl. Have heard the snort wheeze,but you can make a great wheeze sound bu placing your upper teeth against your lower lip and blowing air through it. Easy. An aggresive growl will scare off immature bucks I used itearlier this season to ward off a pair of forkies that were coming towards me and didn't want them to pass my stand.and bust me (possibly). Along aggresive growl broke up their sparring, the larger forky took a few steps in my direction and then they both trotted away the way they came. Guess they didn't want to get their butts kicked by the big boy!

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

drhntr178.. I couldn't have said it any better.

The 'growl' probably exists. It's just a drawn out grunt that's relatively agressive. And I for one have heard strange and even loud and long grunts before.. I just never named them.

Whitetail bucks have different personalities as much as any other animal I have seen. From their antlers to their foot size.. they're all different. Why can't some grunt with more aggresion..?

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I wish I had a camera filming my hunt this year. You'd all know what it sounds like. It's not a drawn out tending grunt, its not just a little louder grunt, its an "I'm going to absolutely kill you" grunt. I watched and heard it several times along with 8-10 snort wheezes from a mature buck defending his doe from a young but persistant intruder. He made all sorts of vocalizations I've never heard, from just regular grunts, to the "roar" grunts, to snort wheezes (and variations on those too). There was so much intensity it was amazing.

All that being said, I doubt I'll buy the call, since I watched this thing for a while and no other bucks were called in. [8D]

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

No Kidding! I'm sure it means STAY AWAY! in deerspeak

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Rybo, don't get me wrong as I do believe the growl/roar exists.

I am just not sure I have heard it yet.. or if it was just a loud drawn out grunt!?

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

well guy's, we all have our own systems, what works for some want work for others. With that being said, I bought into the ploy. I used it this year for 3 days and ended up pulling a buck from a thicket. I have to say I'm not 100% sure it was the call but I think it was. The deer wasn't huge but it was his territory and he was coming out to see if it was still his. Just remember that all calls are made to call the hunter first. Game has been killed for years without any calls or scents.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I have the "growl"................the DVD that comes with it has several deer recorded making the "growl" vocalization........one of which attracts deer from every direction.

My own personal opinion of the inflection changes you hear in the sound is due to the deer running as he is making the noise.........it is violent and aggressive for sure but the ups and downs that make it sound like a "growl" are from the deer's exertions during a run. Making a steady loud sound is easy standing still but try it running down your driveway and it sounds totally different.

Maybe that is the charm........a deer hears that sound and it registers as a not just a tending grunt but an aggressive grunt from a running or trotting buck.........in other words, the chase is on somewhere and he is missing it.

I think the "growl" is just a nice grunt tube. I bought one and used it and will use it again. I toned it down a ton so as not to scare the forks right off the deer's heads that can hear me..........and it did very well as far as calls go. I stopped 3-4 deer in their tracks and made them change direction and come my way with it.........and I say 3-4 because the buck I shot may have been coming my way anyways but I don't think he was.......the brush was too thick to know for sure.

That's all I can ask for out of a call. Could I get the same thing out of 10 other calls?? Probably. I have owned a bunch of grunt tubes including a true talker and the growl got better results then any of them.

It's a good grunt tube.......I don't feel like I wasted $15 on it.


Remember guys........marketing is EVERYTHING in deer hunting. If you can't convince some guy walking slowly by the endcap shelf that YOUR product is the only reason he hasn't killed a monster yet.......you failed.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Being relativetly new, 4 real seasons, to whitetail hunting I think your right.

I've tried calls, rattles and scents. tried a lot, little success.

I have rattled 3 bucks , all but one got downwind and never presented a shot.

I've had success with the doe bleat can call when I see deer, most success is on does anytime of the year and on some bucks in the chasing phase of the rut.

I've found better luck with just doing your homework, scenting out properly, gettting to my stand undetected and just being quiet. Let the deer make the first move. Now I hunt in NE Indiana and its pretty dense in the cover department. Maybe deer came to calls and I didn't see them, but I feel its better to let the deer make the first move.

I am leaning that in turkey hunting also. Seems the more you call to that old Tom the less likely he is to come close.

I've had guys tell me how well the snort, snort , wheeze works. I tried it on two bucks this year, the one started shaking looked everywhere and nervously walked away. The other looked my way and just walked off.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

For me the jury is still out on the Growl thing. I've had great things happen with the snort wheeze call.

I try to keep an open mind but a tightly held wallet.

The upside is that makers of this stuff are trying to find newer better ways to tilt the odds...which usually favor the mature animals.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Rob and Germ are trouble makers, Rob and Germ are trouble makers. OK I got that out of the way!! Now I said it befor, I'll say it again, Deer have been makeing these vocalizations since any of us were around. Thay Growl/Roar (loud, aggressive, grunt), Grunt, Snort,Weeze, Click, Blow, Doe's have a Fawn calling call, Fawns have a distress call, Thay cough, sneese, belch and Fart, (although a fart may not be considerd a vocalization because it comes from a differnt set of lips).I had a an article published in a Bowhunting magazine 10 or 11 years ago on Grunt calls, And explaned several Vocalizations, Extreamly Loud, ShortGrunt,(I just wasen't smart enough to name it Growl/Roar) and Clicking were in this article. So no one Made these things up as a marketing ploy. I have been discussing these same vocalizations with some other Bowhunters for 25 years. I don't even wan't to get into why 4 bowhunters with over 100 years expierance haven't herd this, but if you go back to Oct and look up Clicking, I give an explanation on almost this same subject. Now as far as scents, and lures go, Their the same as grunt calls, thay have a time and a place, sometimes itwork's sometimes itdon't!!I have had Bucks bolt at the smell of some, and seen another one stand there and Ejaculate while sniffing it!! ( I would say that one worked) I have done best with glandular type gells, and I get my Deer urine stright from a farm by the gallon so it can be taken care of properly. (Biggest problem with Urine!!) My Wife has her own special deer lure that is so simpleit would make you slap yourself, it has to do with food, but not bait, and thats all I'm saying becacse She will Gut me if I tell!!! Well thats about enough for now so I'll end with this, Indians used Scents and calls to harvest the Whitetail for Survival, not as a hobbie, and that will work for me. I would rather leave my TP at home, and have to drag my Hind Quarters through the leaves and accross stumps to clean myself up, than leave my grunt call at home. Oh and I don't have a Growl/Roar call, the one I have doe's it all.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

A friend of mine said he ordered a roach killer one time. When he got it.....it was 2 thin blocks of wood and a wooden mallet. The directions said to place block No. 1 on the ground. Place roach on block no. 1. Place block no. 2 on top of roach. Strike with mallet.

The snort-wheeze is pretty simple to make by using your mouth, isn't it????

Pardon me while my mind envisions a certain board member "roaring" in his trophy.

Jeff

Lord....I apoogize....

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I sat this year more than i ever have in my life.Ive heard about the bucks running after each other on those three magical days out of the year and i alwayse missed them.I didnt this year!During three days i must have seen every buck in the county.They were everywhere!I heard alot of grunting,wheezing,etc.Early in the seasion,i scared alot of deer with a call,so i didnt try it any more,why bother,they came by every 10 minutes.One day as the sun was going down,I heard what sounded like a pig-i would say a bear-but im not too savey about bears.It would go off and there was crashing,snorting wheezing,5 minutes later it went off again.Over and over.Im sure nobody else was in the woods,Im pretty sure they were deer,And im real sure the hair on my neck stood up!That was a long walk back to the truck that night.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

My mind also wanders to the scene you PA guys describe with the "orange army"......and wonder how many times these guys "roar" and "growl" back and forth at each other....lol.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

It's just like scents. People spray and drag the crap all over the woods and hang a stand. Well, if you've got half a brain to begin with you hung the stand in an area deer frequent and are likely to pass through. So along comes a deer and the guy say, boy he came right to the XYZ Stinko Outlandish Lure. When in fact, the deer was heading that way and passing through that section of woods for a month to get to his secure little bedding area where the girls hang out. Probably 99% of the deer claimed to have fallen to a lure would have fallen to stinky free that day too.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Hay, LOL
Silver the deer I want to shoot there is no sense roaring at them. They are the king of the woods and know it.

I would view calling and scents different if MI had a good Buck to Doe ratio. For the deer I want to shoot I am only giving away my position if I used them. If you enjoy it and it is working I wish you all the luck. God knows hunting in Northen LP you need it these days.

My family ended up with6 deer this year in Glennie, best year in the last 10 years for us. My cousin grunted one in;)

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

LOL, David.....

My cousin was teaching me duck calling when he told me something I'll never forget. He said..."Jeff....the secret to being a good caller....of ANYTHING.....is being where they wanna come".

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I used my buck growl to call in my buck this year. I'm still skeptical if it works or not, but it did work on that particular deer. I've never heard anything that remotely sounds like a growl in the woods. I look at it as another tool in m arsenal....its not like I don't have 50 turkey calls that don't work either lol.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

David,
Are you saying that all calls are just like using scents. That if a deer comes in its because of chance?

If it is, then I highly disagree.

It is much easier to duplicate the sound a deer makes and fool them than it is to store pee in a bottle and fool their nose. I have too much respect for a deers nose an will very rarely use scents. But calls on the other hand have their place and time. I can name at least 12 different bucks that I knowlingly called in this year. Mainly using "the can". But also with rattling and grunting.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I use scent while trapping alot.It works better on some animals and not so good on others.The main thing now-a-days with scent,is that you have to get it fom a real lure maker.Someone who knows what they are doing,and someone who uses fresh glands-urine-etc.There are synthetics all over the place.The market is there and cheep substitutes make it affoardable,and less effective.I dont use them for deer.Mabe i will when i get my first batch to work the way i want it to.....
Another 2 things to think about if you do have scent that works is
1. are there deer in the area?Calls and scents are what they are.Just because it says it attracts deer,doesnt mean they will move a mile to get to it.You have to be in the general vacinity with any animal,the stuff isnt magic.
2.Time of year matters too.They smell each other all year but only take an intrest in each other for a short period.
Its all got to come together-calls-scent-decoys-camo-location,and the lack of human odor.Even with all of that,Those deer may have fallen for that trick before.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I kind of view it like this:

- the deer may ignore it
- the may come, but was he coming anyway?

With the roar/growl calls, they may work cause they are new sounds that haven't been coming from hunters before. The deer always used/heard them, but never associated them with hunters. the "can" was the same way, I had GREAT success with it at first, then as more and more were sold, I get less and less reaction to it. Same will happen with this call.

My son got one for Christmas and it is different sounding than a grunt, I can't make the sound with my grunt call. His MAD call is a great sounding grunt tube that also makes the roar/growl.

Will it work?? Beats me, but I call when I hunt as much to break up boredom and as anything, and I believe I called in 3 deer this year, at least they showed up within minutes of me calling.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I bought the primos one, can't remember whether it is the roar or the growl. Up until the day I used it in the woods, I had seen deer everyday. That day I saw none, and have seen a lot fewer since. Probably just a coincidence, but hey, it is an observation.
I've never heard this call in the woods either, but I'm in VA, which is a land full of hunters who seem to like killing young bucks. This leaves us in a situation where there are too many doe and the bucks don't get all that aggressive with each other, since there isn't much of a reason to. I'm glad I bought the call, for informational reasons only. It is now a toy that my kids play with at home. I also agree that it is a marketing thing, same with 99% of all the other stuff that's for sale.
I've seen a lot of bucks following doe and grunting their butts off. The true talker seems to be able to mimic these sounds, but with out the aggression in the mix as mentioned above, it too is relatively useless.
I am able to use the true talker as well as "the can" to bring in doe pretty often, so in my opinion having a buck follow the doe that I'm calling is really the only way for me to call with any success in my area.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Rob,
I almost forgot my reason for posting. I have also noticed this "thing" for lack of a better term, where hunters don't seem to be able to admit that there may be some things going on that they have not seen. So, after they find out that deer could be doing some stuff in the woods that they haven't been able to witness, they all of the sudden know all about it. It is like the "Emperors Gown" (not sure that is the proper name). This is the story of two men who trick the Emperor into believing that only those with royal blood can see the gown they are making for him. But there really isn't a gown at all. They pretend to manufacture this new fine gown for him and he is unwilling to admit that he cannot see it, since this would mean he has no royalty in his blood. He then parades this new gown down the streets and all the towns people pretend that they too can see it. No one can admit that they do not see the gown. But ultimately he's just walking naked down the street. I think we have a little of that going on here...

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

Remember, this is a thread on the roar/growl calls. Feel free to start a scent thread.

Why, for asking a relative and good question? You said yourself, your article on contained all of the vocalizations of the whitetail which you were not "smart" enough to call it a roar/growl? It's because it isn't necessarily that, like you said, it's an aggressive grunt sequence so when the Drury's named it the "growl" and the Primos's named it the "roar", it's all marketing. They would sell a call that simply was named "aggressive grunting" call. We can all do that with existing calls.

I didn't say that only 4 of us with 100 years of experience, hell davidmil has 50 years himself, I said us veterans of more than 25 years experience and 100' of years of treestand time...that could be as many as 20 members or more. My point is and still is, everyone who is saying they have had success with the growl/roar has had it using grunting action. This makes these two calls a great marketing angle. I've been calling deer for over 20 years now, I bought my first wood doe bleat when I was in my early teens. I've called countless whitetails into bow range, both buck and doe and neither ever "roared/growled". The only deer I've ever heard do this was the one we ran down and bleed out. He couldn't get up but stood on his front legs, swung toward us and bellowed..../roared/growled....no deer within mile would have come to that and I believe any deer that heard it, exited the area. So I ask:

How many Roar/Growl owners here actually Roared/Growled a buck into bow range?

Where is the Roar/Growl within these vocalizations? : http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/deergrunting/deergrunt.html

Is it at the end of the Rage'n grunts or the Buck Bawl?

Is the growl/roar a brand new phenomenon or a great marketing ploy?

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

From my experience, the deep 'roar' grunt I heard was none of those vocalizations. The closest one would be to take the last grunt from the breeding bellows clip, make it deeper and intensify it 100X and you get about what I heard. Picture a deer so agitated he's trying to kill the other deer, and turn that into a deep,loud, intense grunt.
While I too have heard the groans a spined deer can make, and they are gutteral, to me they are different than the buck 'roar' noise.

Anyone here hunted elk? you take a run of the mill bugle and note how it sounds. Then you take a really ticked off herd bull bugling to (what he thinks) is his cows and note the emotion and deep gutteral sounds that begin that bugle. Worlds apart.

I believe the 'roar' grunt is a very seldom heard noise. I think you need the right mix of an aggressive buck being pushed to his limits.

I also think that capitalizing on the 'roar/growl' is beatiful marketing. I heard the thing and really doubt I'd buy the call. It's just not common enough for me.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

rybo, your one of the view that gets what I'm saying, thanks for that. I wonder how many are actually mistaken on what they think they hear or what they think it a roar/growl and only heard aggressive grunting as well.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

The time I heard it this year was when 2 bucks were chasing a doe and the larger of the two "growled" and then proceded to about kill the smaller one.

The only time I would use this type of call is before rattling. I believe the two combined work well. But, like I posted earlier, I think the two new calls sound terrible and I make the sounds with my Tru Talker.

RE: Deer Vocalizations, The Roar/Growl Phenomenon
 

I am just calling it a "growl" for the sake of what others are calling it now. I believe that agressive grunting is the same as "growling."

Yes, I also believe that the new calls are a product of tremendous marketing.