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Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
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That got your attention ? I have seen time and again posts on how crossbows were so easy to use that they shouldn't be allowed in archery season. I have debated this over and over again and compared the compound to the crossbows to longbows and recurves. I have often wondered just how easy compounds are to someone who has never used one ? Anyway, a coworker had a High Country Excalibur bow given to him. I took it home and spent about an hour tuning it. The tuning was NOT rocket science. I used a bow square to level the arrrow and the on the side to side I looked down the string and eyeballed it. Its a 65# bow, the arrows are 2314 and I think 30" long, a simple TM hunter rest and an old one pin Toxonics sight. Nothing fancy. It doens't shoot paper real well because A - its a two cam and I think they're off a bit, B - the rest hasn't got precise adjustments and C - I didn't really tune the arrows just used what came with the bow. However, with field points and mechanicals fletched with 5" vanes it shoots a hard straight arrow pretty good. Anyway, just came in from shooting. He had never shot a bow before, although he does have a crossbow he uses. I showed him the basics, he strapped on the old Winn release and proceeded to shoot. Distance was 20 yards and he was shooting outdoors into a 3' x 3' target with a 4" square piece of survey tape to aim at. He shot 4 arrows, the first about 2" left and the other three inside that 4" square. Because he hasn't shot compounds before, he really whacked his holding arm good :) - I mean the blue, puffy knots on his forearm whacking !! He declined to shoot anymore until he got an armgaurd but was very impressed with how "easy" shooting the compound was. I have no doubts that he could go out this evening and kill any deer that walks within 20 yards +/- of him. Hows that for easy ? Can a crossbow be ANY easier ? In fact, I don't think crossbows are, he doesn't for sure and he shoots one ! I suspect I converted a crossbow shooter, but the underlying theme remains ..... is shooting a crossbow an advantage ? Why seperate them from archery season without also seperating compounds ?? Stealthycat's Photo's Edited by - stealthycat on 11/26/2002 16:01:31 |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Hello:
Well for starters, A compound bow requires once you see the deer, get the bow, draw it back, and then shoot. The crossbow is ready to fire with the pull of a trigger, aim and shoot. You can mount quality optics on that crossbow, and it shoots a lot farther and faster than that compound. You will never hear of anyone having to hold a crossbow back for several minutes until they are presented with a good shot on a deer. Just my humble opinion. Bill(Wi) |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
JMHO, but a cross-bow can be loaded, ready and waiting for the shot. Any self drawn bow (compound, recurve, long) has to be drawn just slightly before the release. This in itself gives the advantage of fair chase to the deer BECAUSE of the extra movement of drawing the bow. It's because of the lack of this movement that I think cross-bows give the unfair advantage to the hunter, and that they (cross-bows) should remain part of the "motionless" gun/rifle season.
How many times over the years have bowhunters been busted just by the act of drawing the bow? A hunter using a cross-bow only has to be concerned about the aiming part of the shot (as far as being busted for movement). Whoops! sorry Bill - posting at the same time. Again, it's just my humble opinion... Jim. Edited by - jcrayford2001 on 11/21/2002 14:54:05 |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Good points, let me address them
#1 - " You can mount quality optics on that crossbow, and it shoots a lot farther and faster than that compound " Thats not true. A compound will perform better at longer ranges. Faster ? I don't think thats true either, and if it were we also know that faster doesn't mean more accurate, it means less accurate. A crossbow isn't drawn. That much is true. But lets comapare the high letoffs of compounds to longbows/recurves ? Also compare that there no way to prepare for shooting a deer like you can with a compound. No drawing when the deer is coming in and waiting, no drawing when the deer is behind a tree and holding. Also, can we compare the speeds and distances of the compound to recurves and longbows like we have to crossbows and compounds ? See my point ? #2 - " How many times over the years have bowhunters been busted just by the act of drawing the bow? A hunter using a cross-bow only has to be concerned about the aiming part of the shot (as far as being busted for movement)." Jim - Good point. However again compare the times a recurve/longbow shooter gets busted as opposed to compounds that draw before the animal gets close or is fully in the open ? Equal comparisons will show that a compound is easier to use vs a recurve/longbow than a crossbow is to a compound. Am I wrong ? Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I will agree with the fact that compounds are harder to draw on deer. But I will say that I will shoot as good or outperform any crossbow on the market. I shot against many crossbows at target shoots and have shot as good and almost always better than a crossbow shooter.
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Stealthy, after reviewing what you said, I was off in saying they are that much faster or shoot farther, you would be correct. And I also agree that I can usually shoot better than most with a crossbow, but the advantage of the letoff over the crossbow being cocked back still I don't feel is that close. The Bow does take more work with being quiet with the draw and holding it back no matter the letoff. The crossbow is just a pull of a trigger.
Good topic Bill(WI) |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I believe whatever you are comfortable and confident with go ahead and shoot. FYI, in Wyoming crossbows are legal weapons during archery season.
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Stealthycat;
Good post. I am going to leave this alone<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>. Some advice though. If your freind is hitting his forearm, he has form problems. He should not need an armguard for a compound bow. If he gets out in the field shooting at deer with a bulky jacket on with that form he could have some serious accuracy problems. I know its not the point of the story, but thought I'd nip it in the bud. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
i've heard of guys being able to shoot trad. bows while lying on the ground and i'm pretty sure you could do that easily with a crossbow, since these weapons can be shot from virtually every posistion possible, i say that they should be banned and only compounds left in archery season - do not some extremely experienced hunters that have used both equip. consider trad equip. a superior hunting weapon?? doesn't it seem that plenty of people may hit paper great but compounds still account for thousands of misses a year - maybe they only appear to be easy.
i'm just joking around really. but in all honesty i consider the fact of drawing in the presence of game and other calamities associated with compound, longbow, and recurve users that aren't associated(or so i assume) with crossbows to be a much heavier weighted difference. i don't care all that much if they allow crossbows either and i think your arguements are very valid and sound. i just see it a little diff. but i haven't had the chance to shoot any branches<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> - i mean shoot traditional or crossbows so i could be off on some of my assumptions. i think more fair would be requiring compound hunters to hunt from the ground - would that even up compounds and trad. some??:) if i was any good at hunting i'd be shooting trad. too, don't take my advantage away from steathlycat, i'll starve<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I've heard this before. My father is a disabled hunter. In WI that is the ONLY hunters that can use the crossbow. I see the issue about "holding" a draw and depending on the circumstanses that can be true. Disabled hunters (i.e. 1 arm or hand) have a significant amount of problem holding their xbow as long as a conditioned compound shooter.
I have heard so many arguements pro and con actually comparing the different bows available to different long range cartridges being an advantage that I don't really care anymore.I for one like to see disabled hunters being able to hunt and get sick of people using "fair chase" as an arguement. I heard the same thing when compounds evolved. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font color=red>"I've heard this before. My father is a disabled hunter. In WI that is the ONLY hunters that can use the crossbow."</font id=red>
Not true. The law changed, effective this season, that any person 65 years or older may use a crossgun in WI's archery season. SC, you caught that tail yet? JRW |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
OOPS, Sorry JRW, I forgot about the 65 and over. Thanks for the correction
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I'd agree about the form problem, a good proshop should be able to straighten out your friend, the quicker the better.
Who cares wha others use, why ban anything? Very stupid idea, trying to "ban" something. Deer are so thick in most areas you're tripping over them, they have special rifle and blackpowder seasons in early fall, if you think crossbows are going to "hurt" "your" season, you're a little dense. Bag limits will only get more liberal as more land is off limits, and populations increase. Who cares about the equipment used? That being said, I've killed a dozen deer in the past few years with a compound, I could have killed 5 or 6 more with a recurve where I didn't have to worry about enough light to see the pins on overcast mornings and evenings. As the average deer is shot at about 15yds, a chip shot with ANY equipment, a recurve or longbow is much deadlier in the thick woods the vast majority of hunters encounter, and makes it a lot easier to put meat on the table. Perhaps they should be outlawed? I can pick up a recurve or longbow I've never shot and kill a deer every time at 15 yards after a couple practice sessions, are THEY too easy? "In heaven, even the fish have antlers" |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
GEEEEEEZ!!! And people thought I liked starting chit! LOL!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
JRW - Its been a little slow around here <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Just exploring the insides of the minds of anti-crossbowers. Anyone else read the latest Traditional Bowhunter Magazine ? Very good argument presents FOR crossbows, and a very poor one submitted in response by the PBA. Try this - write down all the similarities between compounds, crossbows, recurves and longbows. Then compare. About the ONLY similarity between a compound and a longbow/recurve is drawing the bow and having an arrow. Everything else is radically different. mechnical release, fiber optic sights, machined aluminum risers, carbon risers, high letoffs, low mass weight, cables, pulleys, wheels .... the list goes on and on. Or did I just describe a crossbow ?? Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
i live here in wyoming and there is very little restriction on archery hunting
i dont beleive that the crossbow hunters have any less rights than the compound or traditional hunters as long as you know the limitations of your skills and the weapon i don't see where they (lawmakers and anyone that disagrees with me) get off discriminating against crossbow hunters. they all have strings they all propell arrows and they all with practice can be shot very well. just my $.02 |
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I own both. Never shot a deer with the crossbow but bought it to do just that. At a mear 39 years old my shoulder is just about done. I had been in several shooting situations where I was at a full draw when something happened and I needed to hold for an extended time, only to have to make a painful letdown. Usually because I didn't think I could make an ethical shot any longer. This thread of comments is the reason I haven't killed with it. I get to thinking about its use and quit bringing it along.
About the speed thing, yes its fast. Mine shoots 340 fps according to the manufacture. It's loud also, another reason I don't use it. Accurate? Dead nuts! Conbersom to handle in a tree. I've shot plenty deer with highpower and black powder and so did my hunters 50 years ago...Don't be a snot just because we now hunt with fancy sticks and strings. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font color=red>"Anyone else read the latest Traditional Bowhunter Magazine ? Very good argument presents FOR crossbows, and a very poor one submitted in response by the PBA."</font id=red>
1. That's a matter of opinion, and I'm guessing one that we don't share. 2. It's PBS, as in Professional Bowhunters Society. Thank you. JRW Edited by - jrw on 11/21/2002 20:31:52 |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
This is an age-old argument among those who love to toot their own horn. Why would anyone (especially us hunters) want to divide the troops when we're under fire from all the anti's? We really need to support each other instead of "choosing sides". There are so many deer out there that it shouldn't matter to any one of us what the other guy uses.
Gee, I shoot a longbow so I'm better than my fellow hunter. Gee, I shoot a compound so I'm better than my fellow hunter. Gee, I shoot a crossbow so I'm better than my fellow hunter. What a pile of crap! Elsie "Downsize government - all government!" |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Krisken,
<font color=red>"As far as hitting the bulls eye goes,you show me the crossbow that puts it in a four inch circle each time at 100 yrds. and I'll buy it (maybe),right now I can do it at any time I want,with the bow I have. If you tell me the yardage first."</font id=red> Please don't take this personally, but... The best FITA compound shooters in the world can't even do that. JRW |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I for one really see no advantage to using a crossbow. I have a 31" draw and even with my hunting set up on any bow I have owned lately my bow is as fast as or faster than the best crossbows. My bow will also shoot flatter trajectories out beyond 35 yards. Of course this is just my opinion.
>>>------------> Pinmaster - At Home In The 11 Ring! >>>------------> |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Elsie said: <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>This is an age-old argument among those who love to toot their own horn. Why would anyone (especially us hunters) want to divide the troops when we're under fire from all the anti's? We really need to support each other instead of "choosing sides". There are so many deer out there that it shouldn't matter to any one of us what the other guy uses.
Gee, I shoot a longbow so I'm better than my fellow hunter. Gee, I shoot a compound so I'm better than my fellow hunter. Gee, I shoot a crossbow so I'm better than my fellow hunter. What a pile of crap! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Thank you for a great comment!!!! You deserve a medal! I've always thought that cross bows should only be allowed for disabled hunters in bow only season and used by anyone in gun season. However, I've been thinking about that stance the last few months and I guess it doesn't make sense. I asked myself, why don't I want cross bows to be legal for everyone to shoot in bow season? The only reasons that even crossed my mind, were selfish and bad for the sport of hunting. For example, if cross bows were allowed for everyone to use, there would probably be more people hunting in bow season, I guess that might make the woods more crowded. However, I hunt on 800 private acres with only 1 other person so it wouldn't even affect me. I then thought about the slobs that would pick it up and think they could kill deer at 100yrds with it. But then I remembered the slobs I know who use a compound and think they can kill deer at 50-60 yrds with it. I also know guys who will take a 300 yrd shot at a running deer. Slobs are always around and that is a poor excuse. On the other side of that coin, if more people did hunt with them, it would be great for the sport of hunting. People might use a cross bow and then move into compounds or traditional equip. More people hunting is awesome for out sport and for protecting our freedom of hunting. So that being said, I guess I can't think of a good reason NOT to allow them in bow only season to be used by everyone. Just my thoughts. -------------------------------------------- Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Professional Bowhunters Society - You are right JRW - my bad
TxCowboy - Me too. I use to dislike crossbows too, and I live in a state full of them ! Your thought process is not unlike mine in this and any arguments I have seen against mine end up being all based on one thing - drawing the bow. I can list a dozen things that make a compound more non-archery compared to a recurve/longbow, but the crossbow haters don't want to listen to that. In other words, compare a crossbow to compounds yes, but lets not compare the compound to the recurve/longbow. Why ? When compounds are 98% letoff, can be held for 5 minutes, have drawlocs attached or something similar, weight 1 1/2 pounds, shoot 400 fps whisper quiet and with laser rangefinder sights out to 70-80 yards ... then what ? Still a bow in the same sense as a recurve/longbow ? Elsie - The dividing and conquering is already at hand, have you not seen it ? Look at the fierce fights AGAINST legalizing crossbows ! Hunters against hunters. Maybe this is a backwards approach, but it seems TxCowboy and myself were anti-crossbow until REALLY thinking about it and realizing that it was just unreasonable and couldn't hold up to a solid argument. Maybe others will see this eventually too. Maybe I am wrong ....... but I have yet to see an argument prove it. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I'm not going to get into the debate. I am going to suggest that if your friend is hitting his arm so hard then the drawlength is way too long for him and/or a form problem (too much ahnd in the bow). Plug into Bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practicalbowhunter to find out how your hand should be positioned on the grip.
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Stealthy , we agree on something!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Elsie and TxCowboy , right on!<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> krisken .....never mind , I wont even go there<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
"Anyway, a coworker had a High Country Excalibur bow given to him. I took it home and spent about an hour tuning it."
"He had never shot a bow before." "I showed him the basics." "He shot 4 arrows." "I have no doubts that he could go out this evening and kill any deer that walks within 20 yards +/- of him." That simple, huh? Shooting a (barely tuned) bow for the first time, shooting only 4 arrows, and now he is ready to go out and easily shoot a deer and kill it. Sad!! Edited by - c903 on 11/22/2002 00:01:09 |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I don't believe we should ban anything. If we start banning crossbows, or compound bows, or traditional bows, or mechanical heads, or broadheads, or whatever, then the only people who have won anything is the anti-hunters. And they've won enough already. As I have posted before, and have no worries about posting again, I am a convicted felon. That means I can no longer pocess, carry, hold, fire, or hunt with modern firearms. That previledge is lost to me forever. Let me tell you folks something I've learned from that. You don't realize how much you miss something until it's gone. I used to hunt with a rifle every year until my conviction. Then afterwards I thought my hunting days were long gone. Only last year, after 16 years of not hunting, did I find out that I can legally hunt archery. Now, it's the most cherished hobby I have. More than fishing, golf, bowling, anything. The morale of this story is one of my favorite sayings, "Be careful what you ask for, you might get it, and it might be more than you bargained for!" Any other questions just read my signature below. Now I'll get down off my soapbox and stop preaching. Sorry to make this post so long.
KEEP IT LEGAL. KEEP IT SAFE. OR WE MAY NOT GET TO KEEP IT AT ALL. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Amen C903.
KEEP IT LEGAL. KEEP IT SAFE. OR WE MAY NOT GET TO KEEP IT AT ALL. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
People new to archery OFTEN shoot VERY well indeed. I have NO doubt that this person is PLENTY accurate for deer....at least for now! Wait till he is able to develope some nice bad habits. Then wait for the dreaded target panic (that 90% of archers have...MOST don't know it, many won't admit it).
As for a compound being TOO easy, You STILL have to draw and hold to shoot. ALL the energy the arrow gets, it from YOU drawing (Not a cocking stick, not a crank, not 3 men and a boy pulling the string while using a foot stirup) I don't care if it's 10% let off, or 90% let off, ALL the energy the arrow gets comes from YOU drawing the bow. Even at 90% let off, you STILL have to pull 70# on a 70# bow. As for being able to hold and shoot where a trad bow can not...a trad bow most often is drawn and fired in 1 motion (something REALLY tough to do with a compound). Also, you can't (easily at least) rest the bow while shooting it. Gimme some sand bags, and a crossbow, and I'll shoot agains't most any archer for beer! Bottom line, compounds STILL need to be shot by archers...crossbows can be shot by anyone with a finger, or a string tied to the trigger (OK...not accurately, but it CAN be shot). The best arguement FOR crossbows is that they STILL need to be in a very close range to shoot deer. close enough for deer to see,hear, and smell you. Not the same thing as a 7mm Mag now is it? |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I hunt with every means at my disposal. I would use a spear if it was legal. Heck my knife or even a spoon(j/k) . I have a butchered doe in my freezer not because I used a crossbow either.(even though I did) It was my skill in placing me in the right spot at the right time. I could have also taken it with my compound bow.(left at home that time,hadnt planned on hunting myself that day). I had praticed shooting the crossbow just as often as I did with my compound bow,rifle,muzzleloader and shotgun.(Which I am accurate with all btw.)
Yes it is nice not to have to draw it back as the deer are coming in since I ground hunt. I think it is more challenging on the ground anyway. Be at eye level once then see how hard it is. But with practice I also can draw my compound back without making much movement. Not having to draw the crossbow back is the only advantage. I always wanted to start a discussion on treestands and how they arent fair chase tools.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
stealthy, hang a trad bow, compound bow, crossbow, and rifle on the wall. See the similarities and differences? Shoot each. See the similarities and differences?
I shoot what I shoot because that's what I like/prefer. It doesn't matter to me that someone else shoots what they like/prefer. Crossbows are legal in Ohio, so let the people that want to use them have at it. It doesn't affect me in any way. The real challenge/fun is getting close. Phil. "Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot."<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Right on Elsie!
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
The only thing I noticed out of this all is that the "Mechanical" was used as a good ole "quick fix" again....
and...if this guy is hitting his arm that bad either his stance is incorrect (closed) or the drawlength is too long or a combination thereof... ~Will Hunt For Food~ |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have no doubts that he could go out this evening and kill any deer that walks within 20 yards +/- of him. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Yea sure he could. He shot four whole arrows and no broadheads and he is ready to go hunting. At it again eh Stealthy? You get anything this year so far with your Traditional gear? Not being sarcastic, just wondering. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Why seperate them from archery season without also seperating compounds ?? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I really don't care if they are allowed in archery season.The arguments against them are the same ones used against compounds years ago.I have never shot one so my opinion is one of ignorance. It would get more people in the woods which is good and bad.Good- increases revenue into hunting and strenghthens our numbers. Bad-it puts more people into the woods during bow season. You know I am going to have to try traditional equipment.Just to find out if it's as hard to master as you say, or if you just are a slow learner.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
You get anything this year so far with your Traditional gear? Not being sarcastic, just wondering. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Ah, Charlie wins the prize. Maybe all of this is bitterness there Stealthy???? Stealthy, methinks you need to get in the woods, clear the cobwebs from the old noggin, and move on. I own both a compound and a recurve. I hunt with the compound. Why? I am much more profficient. Could I kill with the recurve? No doubt, but I do not carry it in the woods. Why not? I can not meet my own expectations of the skill level one should have to be in the woods, and I have more respect for the animals than to just fling arrows around. There are an awful lot of archers, both stickbow shooters and compound shooters that have absolutely no business in the woods. I am talking about guys that from 12 yards would have a hard time putting 6 of 10 shots (which for me is unacceptable, 9 of 10 is acceptable) in an 8 inch circle at 15 yards. For the wheelie shooters it is a lack of dedication and practice. For the trad shooters, generally the attitude I have come across in my area is "that is ok, it is tougher with trad equipment let's go hunting." Compound shooters or trad shooters, which according to many I have run into at shoots and on the LW you are not since you did not make your own bow, cut your own cedar trees for arras, etc, that are strictly archers and never tote a gun in the woods typically have a higher degree of dedication than other hunters. What seperates them is their limitations due to their chosen gear. Their are not enough differences between wheelie bows and trad gear to warrant seperate seasons. Now, tell me, why is the eletist attitude so rampant among trad hunters (with the exception of the majority on this board), the LW just smacks of this attitude, as does the magazine you quoted above. Now, the state of Georgia legalized xguns for the archery season this year. Fine, I am ok with that although my personal opnion is that xguns are ok in the general season but have no purpose in the archery season except for the disabled. What I ran into was dozens of guys buying crossbows that had previously no desire to hunt in the archery season. When I asked them why not just get a compound, the overwhelming answer was that it takes too much time and practice to become proficient with a "real" bow, shoot 2 arrows through the xbow, site in the scope, no more practice. Furthermore, ever single person I talked to said the xgun would be put up once gun season came in. Maybe it is different in your area, I am sharing personal exprience in my little part of the world. So, using my area as the example from the paragraph above, I ask you 2 things: 1. Are these guys bowhunters, or just hunters? Realistically, and according to them they had no previous desire to dedicate themselves to becoming archers, but when the state gave them a weapon they did not have to practice with they were all for it. 2. Using my area again as the example, do you really think you will convince me the crossbow is an archery weapon? It takes no dedication, attention to details, attention to form, or, and most importantly, drawaing on an approaching animal to master and become a proficient hunter. Finally Stealthy let me relate this little story , since compounds are inherrintly easier. I just returned from a week of hunting in WV. In camp there were 6 of us. 5 of us shot wheels during the week and one longbow shooter (Chekmate Crusader that he shoots quite well I might add). The longbow shooter practices year round and dedicates himself to knowing his equipment. Of the 5 compound shooters I was the only one with the same level of dedication. 3 of the other 4 went out 2 weeks before, spent big $$$$$$$ getting their bows "tuned" and shot them the Sunday prior to the first hunt the following morning. The other 2 never shot his bow prior to hunting, and had no shots during the week. At 18 yards I was stacking my Muzzys in a 2 inch circle grouping quite well, I practiced with the Muzzys even though I hunt with Mechs, and yes, they all hit the same place. The other 3 struggled to hit the target at 18, so I pulled it back to 12. Results for the week: I was 1 for 2 with a big doe (misjudged yardage on the other and sailed right over her back). My dad was 0 - 0, with no shot opportunities. The rest of the camp was 1 - 18 with one dead deer, one gut shot never recovered, two grazed deer that did not die (both were seen later in the week), and 14 misses, with multiple missed shots on at least 3 deer that they admit to. Please tell me again how much easier a compound is than a trad bow. Now, If xbows were legal and those guys were carrying them, I have no doubt there would have been many more dead deer in camp last week. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
c903 - Why is that sad ??
Budbowhunter - On a differnt topic altogether ... if a convicted felon is release from prison, all rights should be restored to him/her. If that person is still a threat, then kepp them locked up. if they're release, then it means the public is safe, correct ? Static debated that one at one time .. very good arguments he posed there. Stealth_Force - Some of the very best shooters fall apart with buck fever or get target panic. Irrelevant point I think. Really - is it that difficult to draw a compound 18"-20", with you at anchor being 85% letoff ?? And then compare that to the "holding" a longbow/recurve shooter has. Big difference between all three isn't there ? I have missed an elk and a whitetail with my longbow this year (my rookie season). Its different, WAY different, than a compound. Had I been using a compound I can guarantee I would have a new elk on my wall and a big KS whitetail rack. pdq 5oh " stealthy, hang a trad bow, compound bow, crossbow, and rifle on the wall. See the similarities and differences? Shoot each. See the similarities and differences? " How about if I type them ? rifle - stock, sights, accurate at long ranges, trigger, high energy, plastics/metal/wood construction Crossbow - stock, limbs/wheels/string, sights, accurate at short ranges,trigger, high energy (short range KE) plastics/metal/wood construction Compound - riser, limbs/wheels/string, sights, acurate at short ranges, trigger, high energy (moderate ranges KE) plastic/metal/carbon construction longbow/recurve - wood riser, limbs/string, no sights, accurate at short ranges, no triggers, moderate energy ( low end KE) wood contcution I am sure I missed some comparisons, but just looking at them, a rifle looks different, the crossbow and compound looks very much alike and the recurve/longbow looks different. Agree ? " The real challenge/fun is getting close." Is it ? Does equipment have that little to do with it ? Charlie P - No, I am 0 for 2 this year. I am very humbled with shooting a longbow. " Yea sure he could. He shot four whole arrows and no broadheads and he is ready to go hunting." Absolutely. He can shoot as good as anyone here can out to 20 yards. Throw on mechanical Shockwaves and yes, he's ready to go. What other requirments need to be met CP ? He can shoot well enough, the bow packs plenty of punch and shoots a staright arrow ????????? " It would get more people in the woods which is good and bad.Good- increases revenue into hunting and strenghthens our numbers. Bad-it puts more people into the woods during bow season." Agreed. The last point - isn't that a selfish one though ? " You know I am going to have to try traditional equipment.Just to find out if it's as hard to master as you say, or if you just are a slow learner." I tell ya, if nothing else you WILL be a better hunter for it. Why ? The stand locations have to be more precise, better angles, more concealed I think. You WILL learn to focus or you'll blow every shot that comes your way. The focus is the part that amazed me. I never HAD to focus with a compound - put the pin where you want the arrow to go and release. Slow learner ? No, I don't think so. I am not gifted with a natural ability to shoot a longbow/recurve. I would LOVE to shoot with some of the guys on here - especially JRW, LBR, Sagitarius, Shrewshooter and others. I think I could learn a lot. But I do work at it, i practice and my arrows fly very well. My form isn't bad although my release probably is. My consistant anchor always haunts me too. Over Thanksgiving I think I have a realistic chance at shooting at a deer. If I do and kill one, it will be my greatest trophy yet. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
stealthy,
Admittedly, I didn't read through all of the posts yet...just your original one but I have to wonder.... 1. Don't we go through this every year about this time? 2. Are you going to play Devil's Advocate again? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Agreed. The last point - isn't that a selfish one though ? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Just being honest.lol. That is one of the reasons I started bow hunting(or should I say compound hunting)not as many hunters as gun season. Devils advocate? I would say so. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
Boy, what a winding thread! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> SC is mostly right though. Having instructed kids for around 20 years on archery, it has become very clear that for some individuals it does not take very many shots with a modern compound to shoot very well in a very short period of time. But, bowhunting is not just shooting. Bowhunting is a specialized sport that takes years to learn all the 'angles' associated for big game hunters. Would I recommend someone shooting 4 arrows go hunting? No I wouldn't even though that person could shoot. Just an interesting thing I have noticed over the years. I started shooting a recurve in 1960 and actually became proficient enough to do well in outdoor tournaments. I held out for several years refusing to join the compound gang. When I finally did it ways very easy to adapt. By observing many shooters over the years it became very apparent that people starting with compounds actually had significant problems with traditional equipment. Finally, lets let hunters use what they use and get what enjoymant they can out of the hunt. It's a personal choice!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> |
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