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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
SC,
It's not too hard for you to make your point when you define the equipment. The thing that has been shown to you, time and time again, on this forum and many others, and you refuse to acknowledge, is the fact that the only thing that separates compounds from trad bows is the let-off...period! You seem to assume that all compounds are shot with sights and a release. You also assume that all trad bows have wood risers and are shot without accessories. You were, are, and will probably always continue to be, wrong in that respect. Since it fits into your argument though, it's unlikely to change. I know folks who shoot trad bows with sights, releases, launcher rests, stabilizers, etc. I also know folks that shoot compounds with just a simple Flipper rest, and nothing else. Myself included for a number of years. Here's a newsflash...sights, releases, mechanical arrow rests, mechanical broadheads, and stabilizers were all invented long before the first compound bow ever hit the market. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> Every time this is pointed out to you, you go in a big circle and start chasing your tail again. Maybe this time it'll stick. I doubt it though. Dozens of people have given you countless examples of this on various BBS's, and you just ignore them each and every time. You seem to have an inability to differentiate attachements and accessories from the bows themselves. When you finally understand the real differences between the two, we can talk. Until then it's a pointless debate since you refuse to understand the very equipment you are debating. And yes, the more I read these crossgun threads that you start for no apparent reason, time and time again, I start to think that what Reylamb said about "bitterness" is correct. JRW (With no idea why I'm wasting my time with this again) Edited by - jrw on 11/22/2002 09:41:19 |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
LOL, he probably won't even address that.
I pointed that out last time and he ignored it. I suspect his friend had the same trainer as the fella shooting 4" groups at 100 yards. Funy things happen on the internet. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> "In heaven, even the fish have antlers" |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Oh sure he'll address it. He'll spin in a circle, dodge it, and go right back to where he started from.
Because he personally hasn't been able to take an animal with trad gear, and he personally finds it so much more difficult, he thinks his personal experience is some universal truth. It's not. JRW |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Here in michigan you can only use cross bow if you are disabled and the permits are very hard to get. so here in the state that i live in, there should not be any arguement.
hunt on hunt hard eat well |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
PABowhntr -
1. Don't we go through this every year about this time? Uh, yes, I think we do <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> " 2. Are you going to play Devil's Advocate again?" No, I really believe what I am typing here. I think the anti-crossbow setiment has no basis, or at the very best selfish ones. Waiting for that one good arguemtn that refutes mine ..... Charlie P - Honest answer. Me too. I really wish they'd pass a law and let me hunt the Leatherwood Wilderness Area by myself. I know, 20,000 acres to me sounds a bit selfish, but I think I'd be okay with it ! basserman - You entered the unseen and untrackeable magical element. Skill. Some people got it, some don't. I can shoot a compound quite well, I struggle everyday with a longbow. Some are naturals, some are not. I don't think, short a proficientcy test, that hunters as a whole can regulate that. And even then, a proficientcy test proves little other than the equipment is tuned and the person can shoot a target in ideal conditions. Good points I agree with all of them. DG - more good points. He had a very closed stance is the reason he was whacking his arm so much. We're close to the same size in hght, weight and build. I showed him to open his stance a bit and rotate his elbow out instead of in. He'll be fine if he's listening <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good point on the hitting what you aim at. Another thread perhaps ?? " Because he personally hasn't been able to take an animal with trad gear, and he personally finds it so much more difficult, he thinks his personal experience is some universal truth." JRW - Of course you're right. My 13 years previous bowhunting and association with crossbows and compounds don't mean diddly, does it ? Want to talk about the guy on the LW who missed a Grizzly twice, then hit it low, then lost a whitetail ? And he has 20 years experience killing animals with trad bows ! I am in NO WAY dissing him - I highly admire him and more so for posting the truth on his hunts. I love the semi-live hunts - I mean fantastic stuff for a rookie longbow hunter to watch. I watched a Fred Bear video the other night and he choked on a grizzly - shot WAY over its head. Don't tell me it aint different when almost everyone I know says it is and agrees. I think you must be a natural, no kidding JRW. I really think you are gifted in that shooting a recurve/longbow doesn't seem to be "hard" for you. For most of the rest of us I think its more of a challenge. Universal Truth ? Lessons learned and personal experience are invaluable. Can't help but believe in it too. I don't think I'll ever be as good with a compound as I am with a rifle at 50 yards, and I don't think I'll ever be as good with a longbow as I am with a compound at 20 yards. Accuracy doesn't neccessarily dictate what I hunt with though - most bowhunters defy that notion and go with the challenge as long as the accuracy is good enough. I aint debating whats good enough, but I DO know that for me to kill a whitetail I gotta be much closer than I'd have to be for killing one with a compound (max ranges considered). I also know that the benefit of drawing and holding the bow and speed and flat shooting of a compound would have netted me a fine bull and a fine deer. No excuses, just the truth. So harder is it ? Yes, without a doubt ! Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font color=red>"So harder is it ? Yes, without a doubt !"</font id=red>
For you? Yes. For many many others? No. And that is the exact point that has been shown and given to you time and time and time again. Yet, you still ignore it because it doesn't fit into your argument. You also haven't learned the difference between bows and accessories, seeing as you glossed right over it, yet again. And hence, the tail chasing resumes. JRW |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Stealthy i agree with you. boy you do know how to start a fire!!!!!
I own both compound and crossbow and i still prefer my rifle!!!!!! SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Wish I had some extra money hanging around,I'd go out and get some trad equipment.How much does it cost to get started?
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Answer me one question Stealthy. Why would anyone other than someone who is disabled, want to choose a crossbow to shoot over a compound, recurve or longbow?
One statement by me......although someone new to shooting a compound might be able to take a deer after only a few practice shots, its highly unlikely they can do so consistently. Peronally, I don't think its ethical or mature of anyone to start hunting with any sort of bow without practice, practice, practice. Your positive statements about crossbows are negated by your statements about a new compound shooter could kill a deer within 20 yds easily! Has this something to do with sour grapes? |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
" For you? Yes. For many many others? No. And that is the exact point that has been shown and given to you time and time and time again. Yet, you still ignore it because it doesn't fit into your argument."
Lets address it then. Pat missed how many shots ? I read on the LW every day people missing and forgetting to pick a spot. I hunt with a guy who switched to a BW recurve 7 years ago and is 0 for 5, buddy of mine in TX is like 1 for 12 with a couple of hits not recovered quick enough. I read the LW and this site a lot, I KNOW what I am reading and the difficulty of shooting a longbow/recurve. My buddy in KS, he's 0 for 3 on shooting at whitetails with his longbow. I read time and again the "self imposed" 20 yards limits people who shoot with a longbow/recurve have. And thats great, but compound hunters can and do shoot father. Why ? BECAUSE THEY CAN and are more accurate. Fact, undeniabel fact by everybody thats posted here but, well, you JRW. I suspect you are as good as you appear to be, but few other are. " You also haven't learned the difference between bows and accessories, seeing as you glossed right over it, yet again." Has little to do with accessories, its all about "pulling the string back" - thats the argument the PBS spokeman presented and is the key to unraveling the anti-crossbow argument. IF its about accessories, surely theres MUCH more seperating a longbow/recurve from a compound than there is seperating a crossbow from a compound ? See the list above. Charlie P - Depends. EBAY sells a lot of older recurves/longbows for $100 or so. Good ones. Get some leather fingers and a few carbons and go stump shooting - lots of fun and challenging (for most people anyway) " Answer me one question Stealthy. Why would anyone other than someone who is disabled, want to choose a crossbow to shoot over a compound, recurve or longbow? " Okay - to capitalize on the longer archery seasons and in some cases to bag meat does where rifle hunting only allows bucks. Why a crossbow ? Litle practice involved. However is that s the criteria to determine what is and isn't allowed in archery season, then I submit a longbow/recurve takes much more practice if equally compared and thus, they should put compounds in a seperate season. My point exactly Cougar Mag. With a compound you don't have top practice from one season to the next really. A few shots with the techonology of today and people go bowhunting be it compound or crossbow. I suspect longbow/recurve shooter do the same. people 3D because they enjoy shooting their bows, I suppoose a few crossbow shooters do too. " Your positive statements about crossbows are negated by your statements about a new compound shooter could kill a deer within 20 yds easily! " I feel the same about practice Cougar, but that has little to do with the law or what people actually do. This guy demonstrated that with never shooting a compound he can shoot it as well as a crossbow, HIS crossbow. I don't think he's the exception either. My father in law once showed me a very similar thing. Compounds are NOT that difficult to shoot if tuned. Heck anything has to be tuned though and is not hard line for what should and shouldn't be allowed in archery season. So I ask - what IS or SHOULD be the hard line that says what IS and ISN'T allowed in archery season ? Not easy thinking and with more and more states allowing crossbows, and the PBS up in arms and fighting it every step of the way - its good discussions for passing the week until Sat and Sun hunting comes around. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font size=4>Having the ability to hit the bullseye with your sporting arm of choice does not make you a hunter.</font id=size4>
I think the majority of people who are pro or anti anything as far as sporting arms go would agree with the following: "I would welcome any hunter to hunt with me -no matter which sporting arm he/she chooses to utilize- as long as they share the same ethics and sheer passion for the sport of hunting as I do." Bowhunting is one of my biggest passions. If you live and breathe hunting the way I do, I don't care if you use a blow gun to get the job done. I think some of the problems we associate towards particular sporting arms, may have more to do with the operator than the arm itself. Keep an open mind, perhaps try something new yourself, you might be missing something you'd really enjoy. I even bought a new rifle to try my hand at rifle season with a million other PA hunters. You just never know! |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
While this may have gotten out of hand (for a few)<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>it is very aparent that feelings motivate some responses a little more than they should.
SC, Depending on the person recurves and LB are not harder. I've harvested many WTD with them. As I brought up earlier, I can switch back and forth easily. Not because of a gift but because I started long ago shooting traditional bow instinctively. After I got my head out in shunning compounds the conversion was very easy. All of these weapons are fine in the proper hands. My reasoning for abandoning my compound mental block years ago was basically to make me more apt to make a clean kill all of the time. To make it fairer to the animal I hunt. Let us as hunters do the best thing for these noble animals not our egos. I think your missing JRW's point though. Hopefully my last .02 on this |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Stealthy,
When shooting trad equipment, why are you holding at full draw for so long? Shoot what style you want, but it sounds like your trying to shoot trad equipment like it was a compound with sights. Like I said before. You STILL MUST pull 70# on a 70# bow...no matter the let off. Buck fever or not, 70# is 70# is 70#. Your trad bow may be 70#...but only at one spot (unfortunatly your anchor). Now I have NEVER been one to force ethics on someone, and I'm not doing it now....but seeing as your haveing SO much trouble hitting an ELK with your trad stuff....How long are you going to keep flinging arrows at live animals that you admitedly cannot hit? How many are you going to hit, before hitting the vitals? <u>PERSONALLY</u> I am not happy unless I can put all 5 arrows in the target close enough to get my finger and thumb from one hand around the group. Again, that's <u>ME</u>. Are you having SO much more fun with this trad stuff, that you would rather keep shooting this way that actually have that deer or elk? WHY BAN more and more stuff. More hunters is NOT a BAD thing...it's a GOOD thing. To be worried they would be in YOUR woods is selfish (IMNSHO). trad, compounds, and crossBOWS are in the same season because they kill deer on the same principle, and have a very limited range. NOT because xBOW shooters are "archers" it's due to the nature of the tool at hand. I find it VERY hard to understand WHY people would try to talk others into making a hard job (killing a deer with a pointed stick with blades on it) EVEN harder. I use a compound, a release, sights, silencers, carbon arrows (don't EVEN go there), stabilizer, wrist sling, and a peep. ALL help me hit my target. EVEN WITH all that, the animal can still move, that makes it hard enough for me. Now you want me to start flinging arrows with trad stuff? How many deer you want wounded by having us all go trad? |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Answer me one question Stealthy. Why would anyone other than someone who is disabled, want to choose a crossbow to shoot over a compound, recurve or longbow? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> If I may<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> How about change of pace? Adding another weapon to my arsenal? I could go on. Whats the answer your looking for? Because it's easier? SO WHAT! If it makes it a little easier for the person who's adrenaline rush renders him/her useless with a hand drawn bow , then go for it. It all boils down to selfishness and the mightier than thou attitude! |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I don't like to speak for anyone else but I really don't think SC was serious when he said ban compounds.It was just a way to get people to read his post.How could he be serious about banning compounds it would hurt bow hunting greatly.
With out compounds where would bow hunting be? Would there still be a bow season with out the modern compound?I kinda doubt it. How many trad hunters are there out of 100 bow hunters? 4 or 5. I have personally only came across one guy in the woods with trad. equipment and that over 14 years of hunting with a bow.If you took 95% of bow hunters out of the woods how long do you think we would still have a season? I realize some guys would pick up traditional gear but would enough do it? |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
SC,
So you obviously ignore all the posts here about misses and wounding with compounds? Good grief, this place looks like the "wounding forum" sometimes...and this ain't the trad forum here...is it?. Neither group, trad or compound (or even rifles for that matter), has a lock on missing or wounding...do they? Read the threads on this very forum to get your obvious answer. On one hand you like to point out all of the missing and wounding that goes on with some people who use trad equipment...but then ignore the fact that the exact same thing happens with some people who use compounds? How convienent for your argument. Thanks for perpetuating the "wounding myth" of trad shooters! I would have expected more from a bowhunter with as many years to his credit as you have. Please don't ever accuse anyone else, including myself, of driving a wedge again. <font color=red>"Has little to do with accessories, its all about "pulling the string back" "</font id=red> Then why do you go on, ad nauseum, about the "similarities" of compounds to crossguns by discussing things like sights, releases, and other accessories? You can't have it both ways. Again...chasing the tail. As far as your buddies and their track records of misses and wounds... If a person stays within their effective range, they don't go 0 for 5, or 1 for 12 with a couple of wounds. Yes, animals jump the string, and "stuff" happens...but let's be serious. I've got a dollar waitin' on a dime that says their records of missing and wounding would only increase with a weapon that they felt they could shoot even further. My advice for them would be to learn, and stay within, their effective range, or take up a new hobby...like knitting. JRW |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Stealth_Force - I don't think I said that. I missed my elk because I hit a limb, and oddly enough hit a limb on the whitetail too. I haven't missed two animals since 1995 ! I know that a faster arrow would have killed me two nice animals. Now, I DID miss, and I should have seen the limbs, just didn't. I can shoot well enough, both shots felt good. I wanted to hunt last year with my longbow but wasn't a good enough shot. I am not the shot I was with a compound though, just like compound shooters are not as accurate as rifle shooter.
" I find it VERY hard to understand WHY people would try to talk others into making a hard job (killing a deer with a pointed stick with blades on it) EVEN harder. I use a compound, a release, sights, silencers, carbon arrows (don't EVEN go there), stabilizer, wrist sling, and a peep. ALL help me hit my target. EVEN WITH all that, the animal can still move, that makes it hard enough for me. Now you want me to start flinging arrows with trad stuff? How many deer you want wounded by having us all go trad?" I aint talking anyone into it. FACT - a lot of bowhunters want to ban crossbows. Why ? Because it isn't challenging they say, like a compound. BUT when using the same comparisons between compounds and recurve/longbows, we see even MORE differences and challenges, don't we ? I listed a few even. So wheres the logic ?? Seperate crossbows out, then seperate compounds too because surly they are even more difficult to use and master ? Right ? You can't force ethics. You can be an example, you can talk about it and debate it, but can't make anyone adhere to ethcis. We all know those guys who don't sight in their rifles, who don't practice, who take very poor shots ... what to do ? I know that theres anything that can be done. Accuracy is paramount, but not a reason to place restrictions on weapons is it ? I think we bowhunt for the challenge, some see a crossbow as a challenge, some a compound, others recurves/longbows and others selfbows. To each his own I say ... but many do not say that. They say that because a crossbow (that heavy, awkward, loud, not as accurate as a compound, triggered, wheelie with sights thing we described above) isn't hand drawn, and for that reason only, ban it from archery season. I don't buy that anymore because the reasoning behind that view is flawed best I can tell. BOWFANATIC - EXACTLY ! If being easier is the criteria for seperating weapons - then surly a compound should be taken out as well. Is that not correct everybody ?? Charlie P - You are correct. May I expand on that ? How many crossbow shooters out of a 100 ? DOES IT MATTER ? In Arkansas the season has stayed the same length, bag limits are just fine, theres no overcrowding in the woods ... theres NO reason to back that crossbows are bad. Stealthycat's Photo's Edited by - stealthycat on 11/22/2002 15:00:09 |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font color=red>"To each his own I say ... but many ( example JRW ) do not say that. They say that because a crossbow (that heavy, awkward, loud, not as accurate as a compound, triggered, wheelie with sights thing we described above) isn't hand drawn, and for that reason only, ban it from archery season."</font id=red>
..and thank you for putting words in my mouth SC. again...<font color=red>"..isn't hand drawn, and for that reason only..."</font id=red> Would you like to quote and source where I ever said that? Or were you going to retract that lie? JRW (waiting) |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
sc, you're really backtracking now. First you use your misses as a reason why trad gear is so much harder, than when challenged, you admit it had nothing to do with the equipment, it was a brain lapse on the shooter's part. Which is it? Is it because trad gear is harder, or because the archer screwed up? I'm not buying the "guarantee" of either kill with a compound, there were most likely more twigs, could have hit one of them, or missed all together. Nothings "guaranteed" until you tag it. 14 years should haave taught you that much.
And how many tmes must we point out, the basis of your argument is that compounds more closely resemble crossbows than trad gear, but YOU are the only one saying that. You can't use your personal opinion as fact to back up an argument, sorry. I guess this is all a mute point, with a seperate season for compounds, the trad season would be a brief one, at least in the whitetail states. Not enough trad guys to manage the herd properly, I suspect the compounders would have the bulk of the fall to themselves. And yes, your friends sound like slobs to me, 1 for 12?, O for 5? Those peope have no business in the wods, regardless of equipment. I agree, they'd have wounded twice as much if they thought they could take even longer shots. "In heaven, even the fish have antlers" |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
This has turned into MORE than debate. NO "one person's" feelings are more important than anothers. <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
" Oh brother...
The only REAL differences between recurve, longbows, and compounds is the let-off and some speed. THAT'S IT!!! They can ALL be shot with releases, sights, stabilizers, etc. You're peeing & moaning about different BOWS (recurve, LB, & compound), when the REAL difference is in what accessories the shooter CHOOSES to utilize. Do you think that a person could pick up a stripped-down compound (no sights, release, or anything other than a simple rest) and be proficient with it in more, or less, time then he or she would take to be proficient with a recurve equiped with sights, a release, and a stabilizer? It ain't the BOW...it's the accessories that separate the two! A gunstock, 100& letoff, and a trigger are NOT accessories on a crossgun...they're part of the design itself. Not only won't your dog hunt, but it won't even lift it's leg to pee on the fence post. JRW " Thats the post you made on the LW. My response led us into the direction of who shoots short Axle to Axle bows etc etc. So you are right, I lumped you with those that say its all about drawing the bow. What IS your opinion then ? That because a crossbow has accessories mounted to it as opposed to people putting them on later or to help them get better groups, that its different in that way ? I will edit the previous post and remove that association, I was wrong there. I would like to see your opinion though if the above quote isn't accurate ?? Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
6ptsika
" First you use your misses as a reason why trad gear is so much harder," Did I ? I made 4 posts and gave my argument that compounds are as easy to use and more accurate than a crossbow way before talking about my personal challenge and success (or lack of <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>), didn't I ? ... than when challenged, you admit it had nothing to do with the equipment, it was a brain lapse on the shooter's part. Which is it? Is it because trad gear is harder, or because the archer screwed up?" Well, thats not what I said, is it, or in the way that I said it ? I missed because two limbs jumped in fron t of my arrows. Seriously, a faster arrow would have cleared both limbs, and a compound would have let me draw sooner - both advantages. I don't think anyone can honestly say recurve/longbows aren't harder. If they weren't wouldn't everyone use them ? Think about that - most people gun hunt because its the easiest way to kill deer. The least ammount of deer hunters are people who make their own bows. Why ? DIIFICULTY in the chosen equipment, right ? "I'm not buying the "guarantee" of either kill with a compound, there were most likely more twigs, could have hit one of them, or missed all together. Nothings "guaranteed" until you tag it. 14 years should haave taught you that much. ' I do gaurantee, because 14 years I KNOW how compounds shoot and those shots would have fallen. I aint bitter about it, its like relearning bowhunting. And I learned. " And how many tmes must we point out, the basis of your argument is that compounds more closely resemble crossbows than trad gear, but YOU are the only one saying that." Really ? You can't use your personal opinion as fact to back up an argument, sorry." I don't make it a point unless called on it. I base my arguments on factual and reasonable thinking. "I guess this is all a mute point, with a seperate season for compounds, the trad season would be a brief one, at least in the whitetail states. Not enough trad guys to manage the herd properly, I suspect the compounders would have the bulk of the fall to themselves. " Archery season is not there for herd managment. If it were, you'd see a lot longer season and a more liberal limit. I think AR deer hunters take 15% of the total deer kill - not significant. "And yes, your friends sound like slobs to me, 1 for 12?, O for 5? Those peope have no business in the wods, regardless of equipment. I agree, they'd have wounded twice as much if they thought they could take even longer shots." HMMMM. What about the guy grizzly hunting ? 2 shots, 2 misses, one low hit then a deer that gets away ? Slob hunter ?? The one guy is a dang good shot, DANG good. He does seem to have a problem killing deer though - I think he gets nervous. He's killed I think 7 in a row before switching to a longbow with a compound. HMMMM, he's a good shot, but because he's shooting a longbow its MORE diificult maybe ?? HMMMMM Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Basserman, Don't worry no ones feeling are going to get hurt.This is old hat for these guys.
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font color=red>"What IS your opinion then ?"</font id=red>
If you went back, read that thread on the Bowsite, and still don't know what my opinion is...well...I'm not joining you on your tail chase. It's been answered for you enough times already, and lieing about my opinion is not going to get me to go down that road again with you, just to defend myself. JRW |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I think this statement pretty much sums it up.
"most people gun hunt because its the easiest way to kill deer" You have got to be kidding? Is that really how you look at things, and how you think others look at things? It's not about easier or harder for most folks, it's about enjoying themselves in the outdoors. Most folks hunt with a gun because it's fun, it uses about all the vacaion time they have to spare, and it's how they grew up hunting. They'd laugh about your comment, as most of us are. It's not a competition, it's not a reason to boost your ego, it's enjoyment of the chase. MaKing excuses about your misses leads me to believe you get soemthing out of the sport that's foreign to me. I'm sure the last deer I missed I could have killed with a 30-06, but I'm not pointing that out to boost my ego, and distract from my mistake. I don't know aything about no grizzly, I prefer to keep it that way, Too expensive, and dangerous for me and the guide, I'll use a suitable rifle. Doesn't change the fact your friends are unprepared to go afield, and probably use the trad excuse for stretcching their effecive range. Bowhunting not a herd managment tool???? That's exactly what it is, and archers take a lot more than 15% in every state I hunt(4 states so fa this year). Longer seasons and liberal bag limits??? In the East where I hunt archery is 5 months long, pretty much unlimited bag. Most areas require you take a doe before a buck, if that's not herd management, I guess they just don't like does? "In heaven, even the fish have antlers" |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
6ptsika,
I don't know about AR, but last year in IL our bowkill made up roughly 40% of the total deer harvest. We have a season that opens 10/01 and ends in mid-january. We have a two buck limit, and unlimited does. There is actually a 5 county "restricted harvest zone" in East Central IL where hunters are forbidden to take does until November 1st, and are limited in their total harvest. Our DNR has specifically sited over-harvest by bowhunters as the reason for the special regulations. What's funny to note is that IL, which allows crossguns only for the physically disabled during archery season, has more liberal bag limits than states like Ohio, where they're allowed at will. I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here. JRW |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I love these debates they are very comical while standing on the side lines. What is interesting and sad is watching the bowhunter "elitist" adittudes come out. "My way is the only way" adittudes etc. These are also the same people who will not accept that THE man Fred Bear not only used poison pods, he advocted them!(that's another debate altogther)
This debate has gotten a little out of hand and is no longer really discussing the topic at hand. The topic is not which weapon is easier; it is why should or shouldn't cross bows be allowed in archery season. There hasn't been ONE good reason presented against allowing crossbows to be used. Yes yes, I know you don't have to draw it by hand when a deer walks out, nor do you have to hold any weight back. No doubt that makes the cross bow easier, so what? Tell me how a man in a tree with a cross bow is going to negatively affect your bow season? And don't even try to use that example by giving the hunter a gun. We all know that guns going off in the woods gives the deer a definate "heads up" that it's time to head for the hills. Look, I've never shot a cross bow and don't really plan on it but Stealthy is right on this one. There is no logical reason not to allow them. The theory of, it would get more slobs in the woods is a joke and an insult to all hunters. -------------------------------------------- Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
6ptsika - Poor choice of words perhaps. How come everyone donesn't use bows ? Because guns are far easier to use, more accurate and gives them a better chance overall to kill a deer. Yes, I agree on the comraderie and all aspects of the hunt, but the end goal, focus or whatever you want to call it is filling a tag. Most use guns to attain that. WHY ? Its easier, plain and simple.
JRW - One post of your out of dozens about crossbows adds anything to the conversation really from what I have read on the LW and here, so no I don't really know your stance and instead of posting it like I am you dodge around again and again. I guess it IS that hard to answer, huh ? If its about accessories as you above stated, then its clear that compounds are a big advantage overall, with the machined risers, wheels, letoffs, speeds, power, etc. Arkansas, 1998 stats .... 179,225 total harvest, 6488 with crossbow 8605 with archery - about 8.5 %. I am at home now and the connection is much slower so I won't surf for more stats - but that is my state. We have a 5 month season, 4 deer limits depending on zones, up to 3 or 4 does I think ?? Thats pretty liberal yet we only harvest something like 10% of the overall deer harvest - crossbows included. 10% is minimal, and maybe it is higher in other states ?? I'll look at that on Monday if this thread is still alive. Let me ask this - what did Remington, Knight and the other makers of inline muzzleloaders do to get muzzleload seasons ? They were already in place, right ? What did Matthews do or BowTech ? Lets lay blame and point fingers equally, shall we ? The guy for PBS put forth the "what have crossbow manufacturers done for bowhunting" spill too. Don't hold ANY water. TxCowboy - I agree, completley. For the record all - I support longbows, recurves, compounds AND crossbows in legal archery season Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
6ptsika, I don't know about AR, but last year in IL our bowkill made up roughly 40% of the total deer harvest. We have a season that opens 10/01 and ends in mid-january. We have a two buck limit, and unlimited does. There is actually a 5 county "restricted harvest zone" in East Central IL where hunters are forbidden to take does until November 1st, and are limited in their total harvest. Our DNR has specifically sited over-harvest by bowhunters as the reason for the special regulations. What's funny to note is that IL, which allows crossguns only for the physically disabled during archery season, has more liberal bag limits than states like Ohio, where they're allowed at will. I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here. JRW <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> So , then your opposition to crossbows is based on selfishness? After reading other replies you've made on this subject in the past I would have guessed it to be your "mightier than thou" attitude. Or is it a little of both? |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Ohio allows crossbows. Has for a long, long time.
LOTS of guys use them. Some have never and will never use any other type of bow. No effect on the herd. The herd continues to grow healthier and larger every year it seems. We need MORE hunters, not less. We need to stick together. |
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
stealthy, the xbow and rifle hanging there. You put it to your shoulder, flip off the safety, look through the scope, pull the trigger.
The compound and trad bow hanging there. You pull it back, hit your anchor, release the string. As stated by others, some shoot bare bow and some with accessories, both type bows. What type of bow or xbow you use has absolutely nothing to do with how close you get. I agree compounds have a longer affective range, but that doesn't necessitate taking long shots. In the thick stuff I hunt, 25 yds is a long way to see clearly. Just because you carry a trad bow doesn't make getting close easier or harder. I can hit what I shoot at, I find getting close the real fun/challenge.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> Phil. "Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot."<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font color=red>"JRW - One post of your out of dozens about crossbows adds anything to the conversation really from what I have read on the LW and here, so no I don't really know your stance and instead of posting it like I am you dodge around again and again."</font id=red>
SC, again...I've posted it time and time and time again for you. I'm not going to join you in chasing your tail. If you don't understand it by now...you never will. <font color=red>"So , then your opposition to crossbows is based on selfishness? After reading other replies you've made on this subject in the past I would have guessed it to be your "mightier than thou" attitude. Or is it a little of both?"</font id=red> BOWFANATIC, thank you for the name-calling. I always enjoy when crossgun discussions go to this point. One guy says that bowhunters don't impact game management, so crossguns are a moot point. Another guy posts facts to refute that invalid claim, so that makes him "selfish". How convienent for you. The other side of the coin would be for me to call those who want to legalize crossguns for archery-only seasons, instead of actually learning to hunt with the already-required equipment, lazy slobs. But, you haven't seen me do that, have you? And you won't. I'll afford you more respect than you have me by closing with this: A wise man once said that the measure of a man is not only those who shook his hand, but those who cast stones. In that regard, I consider all the name-calling and insults, by you and your type, a badge of honor. JRW |
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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
JRW - You dodge more than Bill Clinton does ! And that piece on the LW, REAL classy buddy !
" One guy says that bowhunters don't impact game management, so crossguns are a moot point. Another guy posts facts to refute that invalid claim, so that makes him "selfish". How convienent for you." Correct, AR archers kil about 8.5%-10% annual harvest. Rifle hunters do the rest. IL archers take about 40% as you said, and the rest ? Is it shotguns ya'll use ? I think we're both right on those counts. If ya'll are killing that many deer, then yeah, I can see the G&F taking measures to preserve the herd and manage it properly. I would think you'd be in FAVOR of seperate seasons - hell the comound hunters must be taking like %80 or more of the archery kill, right ? But the differnces in the compound vs recurve/longbow aint significant , not like the crossbow vs compound, is that it ? RIIIIGGGHHHHTTT ... I keep forgetting the brilliant argument you put forth !! Name calling ? How about Liar ? As defined, LIE : 1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive The intent wasn't there JRW, although I was technically wrong in that I cannot find anywhere that you stated what I wrote. You were VERY generous in giving me 20-30 minutes to retract it and edit though before making subsequent posts and bashing me on the LW. You Da Man !! So, you going to answer BOWFANATIC question or not ? Is it true that compound, recurve and longbow hutners band together to keep crossbows out because they want to keep their long season, there bag limits and to keep the number of hunters to a minimal in the woods ?? I'd LOVE to see that argument ! Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Krisken,
I really didn't mean anything personal by it. But, you blew me away with, <font color=red>"Ted Nugent won a squirrel shoot in 1976 by taking a gray at 150 Yrds.,Why isent he in the olympic's?"</font id=red> As an overly-frustrated squirrel hunter, I'm in awe. That's some SMOKIN' shootin'. Tkae the zero off the end and I'm still in trouble with those grays. :) JRW |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font color=red>"The intent wasn't there JRW"</font id=red>
...says the guy who was called to the mat for it. How convienent. <font color=red>"So, you going to answer BOWFANATIC question or not ? Is it true that compound, recurve and longbow hutners band together to keep crossbows out because they want to keep their long season, there bag limits and to keep the number of hunters to a minimal in the woods ??"</font id=red> 1. That wasn't his question...was it? And you wonder why you don't know my position on crossguns in archery seasons? LOL!!! 2. Since when did I become qualified to speak on behalf of all "compound, recurve and longbow hunters" who "band together to keep crossbows out"? I'm one bowhunter with my own personal opinions...not the Grand Pubah of the bowhunting community. ROTFLMAO!!! <font color=red>"You dodge more than Bill Clinton does !"</font id=red> To quote you..."REAL classy buddy" <font color=red>"You Da Man !!"</font id=red> Thank you. JRW Edited by - jrw on 11/22/2002 22:24:58 |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
JRW, I don't know you from Adam but you amaze me. You have not contributed anything worthwhile to this debate in my opinion. I don't mind people who disagree with me.(if I did I wouldn't hang my hat in the politics forum) But I yet to see you post your opinion or stance on anything. No you aren't the grand pubah of bowhunting and neither am I but we can give our opinions and start a discussion on issues?
Bowfanatic, I think you hit the nail on the head. Selfishness is the ONLY logical reason not to allow cross bows in archery season. Hey I admit it,I was against cross bows! However, after thinking it thru and realizing that I could come up with no logical reasons for my position, I changed my mind. I admit I was wrong, I'm a big enough man to admit it. I will ask again to the people against cross bows in archery season; give us one good reason why you hold that position. -------------------------------------------- Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas. |
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
OK....Ted shot a squirl at 150. How DUMB luck! And I bet he would tell you the same. I have seen him shoot. Not bad for instinctive. but I'd shoot agains't him at a buck a point anyday.
I saw him hit WAY high on an animal (looked liek an easy shot...didn't duck the arrow, justa bad shot) and then finish it off with a VERY good shot while the critter was on the run (at a claimed 90 yards) He's fun to watch, but he's a MUCH better hunter than he is an archer. NOTHING agains't Ted. But if you think he can hit suqirels at 150 yards, You need to quite that bad habbit and get into rehab. |
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