Now, how could I get away with having a mature doe wind me yet not find me and not spook. It's easy, whitetails unless they live in an area void of humans will accept some level or human odor.

Then you aren't reading the threads like you say.........all I give are the facts.........just because people (you) don't like what those facts say is not my problem

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ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer

Yes, that's prolly true but how many deer are they not seeing or blowing out of the area.


Marketers all over the country drool at statements like this. Non Fact Paranoia will cause people to throw endless amounts of money at stuff trying to find a magic potion to solve all their problems. Non Fact - opinion



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We all know we cannot eliminate human odors entirely from our bodies, we can however reduce them to an acceptable level.


What is "acceptable" Rob??.........and how can you ever know if you have obtained that? Is it the same for EVERY deer in EVERY situation?? Non Fact - questions




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Also, IMO I feel open pattern camouflages like Predator, ASAT and the new Enigma are far more effective in breaking the human outline and hiding said person. Okay, on to my hunt.


Agreed..........I think we are definately seeing the future of camo evolving to open patterns.........or 3D. Non Fact - opinion



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She was coming straight at me, directly down wind. At 52 yards (rangefinder) she stops and proceeds to stare at the base of the tree I am in for exactly a half hour. She stood in one spot for an entire half an hour looking for me, trying to wind me. I couldn't believe it, I had my back to her and every now and again I'd turn to see her ears sticking up, swiveling, head up in the air, stretching her nose upward trying to wind me, staring a hole through the base of the tree I am in and standing there, just standing there all most completely still for over a half hour. Imagine.



I wouldn't be too thrilled if she nailed you from 52 yards away with your back to a tree between you two.........especially considering all the precautions you take. Non Fact - opinion




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Now, how could I get away with having a mature doe wind me yet not find me and not spook.


Because you had a tree in between you and the deer. How do you know she "winded" you??...........Why would she be sniffing the air like crazy if she had already winded you?? Sounds like something else had her attention. Non Fact - opinion



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If I did very little I know she would have blown and took most of the deer in the area with her


No way for you to know that. Fact



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I decided to tease her. As see stared at the base of my tree I decided to wave my arms like a bird. When I did this I was glassing her and watched as her eyes went from the base of my tree to me, okay she caught my movement. When I stopped moving she would again, look at the base of my tree wondering what is going on. It was obvious to me that when I stopped moving, I disappeared. I was glassing her and she'd look around and then look at the tree. I'd wave my arms again and she'd look up but when I stopped she'd either look down or look away. Now, that's all about an open pattern and I wonder if the store shelf patterns would work this well. I doubt it with the experience I've had in the past with those patterns. I'm convinced that open patterns like the Enigma camo that I was wearing as well as Predator and ASAT allow movements.


Considering you were on the other side of the tree and all she could see was your arms.......if anything because the sun was in her face and you were in the shadows by the looks of your picture.......it's hard to say how much movement she could see. Non Fact - conjecture



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When I was tired of messing with her I decided to get down. I lowered my bow, I lowered my back pack and dropped the rope. I turned expecting her to be gone, nope, stood there, same spot looking. I started climbing down, in doing so I had to circle the tree on her side, she stood there directly down wind. As my feet hit the ground she no longer could see me and as I snuck out I'm convinced she was still there, never spooking.


Obviously there was something else going on here..........a mature doe that stands there while the noise and motion of a large man coming down a tree is going on 50 yards away can not be considered normal..........at least I hope not, because if it is then hunting will become a lot less fun. I like knowing I have to be careful with my movements......I like knowing I can't make a sound........I like knowing I have to be at my best to go undetected. If I can put on some suit and make all the noise and motion I want and still have deer walking around what is the challenge to that?? Just walk up and shoot 'em if that can't see you anymore. Non Fact



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Moral of the story, I'm convinced after 25 years of bowhunting, wearing just about every conceivable pattern and maturing in scent elimination, that we make our own success's.


Agreed..........I don't think camo, clothes, or sprays are what makes that success though. Non Fact - opinion
You are set up over a food plot with deer all around you because they are coming to eat your food...........I think you may be attributing your success to things that are actually minor contributions.Non Fact - opinion
I bet you would do just fine right where you are in GI-Joe camo and a bottle of scent eliminator spray. Non Fact - opinion



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Yes animals will be killed wearing anything and everything and yes they will be killed by people paying no mind to their scent but how many of you can honestly say that you could have a mature doe down wind, wave at her and climb down in her presence and never have her spook. She's not the first one for me, Last Saturday my friend Kurt and I sat side by side and had not one but 3 buck and 3 doe directly downwind without spooking and without being seen.


Why is everyone so impressed with having deer downwind of them?? With basic scent precautions I have had deer up, down, sideways, and under me with the wind blowing in every direction. buttons
It's kind of a silly notion anyways because if you sit in your stand all day you will notice how many times the wind shifts or swirls throughout a hunt..........anyone who thinks the wind is a linear device is bonkers.


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Just something to think about. You can kill deer but I wonder how many you don't see, spook or could have if you mind what you wear and do?


Paranoia...............without a doubt the absolute #1 driving force behind marketing deer hunting products. Preying on the lottery mentality of "What if"?? Non Fact - opinion


What do you say to someone who takes EVERY precaution that you take and has all the EXACT same stuff and doesn't see anymore deer or have anymore deer hang around downwind?? Does that prove your theories wrong?? Non Fact



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Okay, pick away.



Just playing devil's advocate for ya Rob............Trying to show there can be 10 different explanations to every situation. I have thought that I had it nailed many times myself........and then I get busted the next day in the same situation. I have just seen so much variability and dynamic behavior from deer to ever take one isolated case at anything more then face value. Enigma may be the greatest camo ever..........only time will tell. One story about one deer on one day is really meaningless to me. I have had deer standing in spitting distance from me when I was wearing a full blaze orange pumpkin suit and they never saw me...........does that mean it is the ideal camo??........of course not.


Thanks for the cool thread..........nice hunting area too I am gonna check out Enigma after the Bills game.

Just going by what I see

if you are still not bright enough to figure it out then ask someone else to help - nobody is forcing you to post here