are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
11-12-2002 | 07:09 PM
#51
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: fairfield pa USA
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
Lil hunter very well said. However I think that no matter what you say JRW will come up with a senario to counter any thing we say. I am done with this thread so good luck this season guy's I hope every one is very succesful and hunt safe.
11-12-2002 | 07:11 PM
#52
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 0
From: Fairbanks, Alaska
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
Dan, are you serious that I am the only Alaskan bowhunter that you know that is against a required proficiency test for bowhunters only? I have talked to a few folks that are against "legal requirements" like these.
My point is focused accross a broader board though. If testing is going to be required, either by hunters asking for it or governmental influence, than I think it should be across the board for all types of hunting. I feel that I should not have to pass a test to be able to hunt state land, I can see that for private land if the owner wishes to require it, but not for public.
I might sound hypocritical now, but bear with me. Since the proficiency test is already in place, I wish it would be more involved and area specific (ie. Alaska). I don't think you'll find a bowhunter in Alaska that disagrees with that. If they are going to require it, at least make it more worth while.
I took the class even before I went bowhunting in non-archery only areas just to learn. I took it as more of an educational reasoning rather than a requirement. 26B is another reason of course. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I would love it if groups like the ABA, Golden North Archers or any state wide or regional archery associations would take the time and insentive to set up days to help train archers, new or old to the sport, and put the word out of when and where it is happening. When I first started, I would of jumped at the chance to head out and pick up whatever education that I can.
ArcticBowMan's Hunting Photo's
My point is focused accross a broader board though. If testing is going to be required, either by hunters asking for it or governmental influence, than I think it should be across the board for all types of hunting. I feel that I should not have to pass a test to be able to hunt state land, I can see that for private land if the owner wishes to require it, but not for public.
I might sound hypocritical now, but bear with me. Since the proficiency test is already in place, I wish it would be more involved and area specific (ie. Alaska). I don't think you'll find a bowhunter in Alaska that disagrees with that. If they are going to require it, at least make it more worth while.
I took the class even before I went bowhunting in non-archery only areas just to learn. I took it as more of an educational reasoning rather than a requirement. 26B is another reason of course. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I would love it if groups like the ABA, Golden North Archers or any state wide or regional archery associations would take the time and insentive to set up days to help train archers, new or old to the sport, and put the word out of when and where it is happening. When I first started, I would of jumped at the chance to head out and pick up whatever education that I can.
ArcticBowMan's Hunting Photo's
11-12-2002 | 07:16 PM
#53
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 0
From: Montgomery IL USA
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
<font color=red>"come on up, I'll gladly take you out for birds or bou and show you our class!"</font id=red>
Careful now Dan. I've always wanted to hunt AK, and I'm cheap...er....frugal. I might just take you up on the offer. I think I can swing airfare, a few tags, and other "essentials".
BTW, "oldtimer"? Who you talkin' to Dan? Heck, I'm probably YOUR age.
Grim Reaper, like I said before. Come better prepared for debate next time. But please stop pouting...OK? It's not personal, you know. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
Careful now Dan. I've always wanted to hunt AK, and I'm cheap...er....frugal. I might just take you up on the offer. I think I can swing airfare, a few tags, and other "essentials".
BTW, "oldtimer"? Who you talkin' to Dan? Heck, I'm probably YOUR age.
Grim Reaper, like I said before. Come better prepared for debate next time. But please stop pouting...OK? It's not personal, you know. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
11-12-2002 | 07:28 PM
#55
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: fairfield pa USA
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
JRW I was very prepared I more than countered every question and point you made. You just will not listen to any thing but what you want to hear. That is why you twisted what I said and tried to act like I was saying one thing when I said another. The test's are comming maybe not today maybe not next year but they will be here and I am waiting for the day.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> As I said before good luck in the woods<img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle>
11-12-2002 | 08:01 PM
#56
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 0
From: Montgomery IL USA
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
Krisken, thanks for the compliment. I'm glad that you didn't take it personally that I opened by countering a quote of yours. It was just the one that "jumped out" the most.
Grim Reaper, what can I say. I didn't twist your words around. Heck, I quoted them...word for word. This, of course, is more courtesy than you gave me by lieing about what I said, exagerating it, and making personal assumptions about me that were already shown to be incorrect. For example...
<font color=red>"I don't belive that he can't hit the broad side of a barn at 20 yrds. but at 10 he splits nocks..."</font id=red>
A claim that I never even came close to making about the bowhunter in my post.
<font color=red>"It does not take a world champion archer to accomplish this and you know that."</font id=red>
A claim that no one here, including myself, ever made. Yet, you repeatedly countered it anyway, to me.
<font color=red>"Now I definetly believe that you just don't want to be scored on your shooting ability there is no other reason."</font id=red>
A claim/assumption/accusation that you made after I already posted some of my competitive shooting acomplishments, in response to a comment that you previously made.
<font color=red>"What is your answer all you do is put down what I am saying so suggest some thing better!"</font id=red>
Something that I did in my very first post on this thread.
You also lied about what you said, on this very post, when you stated... <font color=red>"Once again I am not talking about your buddy..."</font id=red> ...after you started out by addressing me for the first time on this thread by saying... <font color=red>"To the guy crying becouse his buddy only shoots 10 yrds. I guess he wil;l just have to learn to shoot 20 it's not that much of distance sorry."</font id=red>
Then, you resorted to personally calling me an "idiot" as well. Despite the fact that I repeatedly told you that this was not personal, and refrained from any name-calling towards you or anyone else on this thread.
<font color=red>"I was very prepared I more than countered every question and point you made."</font id=red>
No you weren't, and didn't. What you basically did was chase your tail in a big circle, contradict yourself, and make my point for me when you said...
<font color=red>"WHOA WHOA WHOA ethics and be being able to hit the broad side of a barn are 2 very differnt things"</font id=red> ...and... <font color=red>"It may not stop a person from taking a 50 yrd. shot or even from wounding".</font id=red>
With those two quotes of yours, you completely dismantled your entire argument for mandatory proficiency tests, and reaffirmed what I have been saying from the get-go. If you're upset that I called you on it, that's hardly my fault. You posted it. I just quoted it for you.
JRW
Grim Reaper, what can I say. I didn't twist your words around. Heck, I quoted them...word for word. This, of course, is more courtesy than you gave me by lieing about what I said, exagerating it, and making personal assumptions about me that were already shown to be incorrect. For example...
<font color=red>"I don't belive that he can't hit the broad side of a barn at 20 yrds. but at 10 he splits nocks..."</font id=red>
A claim that I never even came close to making about the bowhunter in my post.
<font color=red>"It does not take a world champion archer to accomplish this and you know that."</font id=red>
A claim that no one here, including myself, ever made. Yet, you repeatedly countered it anyway, to me.
<font color=red>"Now I definetly believe that you just don't want to be scored on your shooting ability there is no other reason."</font id=red>
A claim/assumption/accusation that you made after I already posted some of my competitive shooting acomplishments, in response to a comment that you previously made.
<font color=red>"What is your answer all you do is put down what I am saying so suggest some thing better!"</font id=red>
Something that I did in my very first post on this thread.
You also lied about what you said, on this very post, when you stated... <font color=red>"Once again I am not talking about your buddy..."</font id=red> ...after you started out by addressing me for the first time on this thread by saying... <font color=red>"To the guy crying becouse his buddy only shoots 10 yrds. I guess he wil;l just have to learn to shoot 20 it's not that much of distance sorry."</font id=red>
Then, you resorted to personally calling me an "idiot" as well. Despite the fact that I repeatedly told you that this was not personal, and refrained from any name-calling towards you or anyone else on this thread.
<font color=red>"I was very prepared I more than countered every question and point you made."</font id=red>
No you weren't, and didn't. What you basically did was chase your tail in a big circle, contradict yourself, and make my point for me when you said...
<font color=red>"WHOA WHOA WHOA ethics and be being able to hit the broad side of a barn are 2 very differnt things"</font id=red> ...and... <font color=red>"It may not stop a person from taking a 50 yrd. shot or even from wounding".</font id=red>
With those two quotes of yours, you completely dismantled your entire argument for mandatory proficiency tests, and reaffirmed what I have been saying from the get-go. If you're upset that I called you on it, that's hardly my fault. You posted it. I just quoted it for you.
JRW
11-12-2002 | 08:03 PM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
From: egypt
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
Yes Jerry you are the ONLY bowhunter I know that has actually taken the class and disagrees with it, passed or failed.
I agree on the more area specific. We are teaching moose hunters, the basics on whitetails, a joke IMO but we have a "schedule" or forgive the spelling cerriculum to teach by and have to stay within those guidelines FOR NOW.....With 40 students we can only stress the factor of many of the lessons at hand, that they are at a "granduer" scale then they may seem. The shoot no shoot situations I am sure stress this. Its tough being as complex a state as we are, trying to teach as much as we can in 6 hours!
Also look at the basic hunters edu. Its becoming mandatory across the country, also special hunts with most weapons has some kind of proficecny testing. Alaska included (speaking of other then bows here). We may not agree with all of it, but the intent is worthy. Ask any instructor up here, you'll get as many different answers as there are instructors, but yet they are all the same in there own right.
The groups do have "days" where you can gain mucho knowledge, the 3d's on wed in summer on esro, the range wed and fridays in winter, any broadhead shoot, kings nook, books, mags, internet. Its a booming economy for bowhunters. Its called finding a mentor, in which you did in due time. Its a shame a new guy has to find one but I was in your shoes 11 yrs ago, I agree, one of the other reasons I jumped at trying to help you and many others and also find a new hunting pard at the same time.
Jason, You dont have to twist my arm to hard to come on up! Btw, from the pictures pard, I think you have me beat on this earth atleast by a few years <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Grim,
I would hate to have him head hunting me also. That said I agree more often with Jrw then not. He is one of the few I have seen around this place I have a great deal of respect for and it seems to show in many others responses. Yes we butt heads but take it all with a grain of salt, yes we cause head butts with others, its all about learning and hopefully fixing many flagerent errors among other peoples thinkings/doings and what not.
Its unfortunate we cant find common ground here but I am sure we will in the near future. It is nice for once we can atleast have a discussion and not be cussing eachother off the boards like many others did when this first started.
I agree on the more area specific. We are teaching moose hunters, the basics on whitetails, a joke IMO but we have a "schedule" or forgive the spelling cerriculum to teach by and have to stay within those guidelines FOR NOW.....With 40 students we can only stress the factor of many of the lessons at hand, that they are at a "granduer" scale then they may seem. The shoot no shoot situations I am sure stress this. Its tough being as complex a state as we are, trying to teach as much as we can in 6 hours!
Also look at the basic hunters edu. Its becoming mandatory across the country, also special hunts with most weapons has some kind of proficecny testing. Alaska included (speaking of other then bows here). We may not agree with all of it, but the intent is worthy. Ask any instructor up here, you'll get as many different answers as there are instructors, but yet they are all the same in there own right.
The groups do have "days" where you can gain mucho knowledge, the 3d's on wed in summer on esro, the range wed and fridays in winter, any broadhead shoot, kings nook, books, mags, internet. Its a booming economy for bowhunters. Its called finding a mentor, in which you did in due time. Its a shame a new guy has to find one but I was in your shoes 11 yrs ago, I agree, one of the other reasons I jumped at trying to help you and many others and also find a new hunting pard at the same time.
Jason, You dont have to twist my arm to hard to come on up! Btw, from the pictures pard, I think you have me beat on this earth atleast by a few years <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Grim,
I would hate to have him head hunting me also. That said I agree more often with Jrw then not. He is one of the few I have seen around this place I have a great deal of respect for and it seems to show in many others responses. Yes we butt heads but take it all with a grain of salt, yes we cause head butts with others, its all about learning and hopefully fixing many flagerent errors among other peoples thinkings/doings and what not.
Its unfortunate we cant find common ground here but I am sure we will in the near future. It is nice for once we can atleast have a discussion and not be cussing eachother off the boards like many others did when this first started.
11-12-2002 | 08:11 PM
#58
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: fairfield pa USA
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
JRW I haven't taken any thing personal. You did state your side very well and I am sorry that I may have offended you I should not have resorted to that. However you think you have won the debate and I think I won. I have recieved 3 e-mails from people here that didn't post on this thread supporting me as I am sure you too have recieved these e-mail's in your favor. Good luck JRW I too am glad that some one like you is a hunter but I know we will probably never agree on every thing but hey who will.
11-12-2002 | 08:24 PM
#59
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 0
From: Montgomery IL USA
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
Grim Reaper,
You are correct, bowhunters are just people. As such, not all of them will agree on all issues. At the end of the day though, most of us (and I firmly believe that you are included here as well) have our hearts in the right place, and only the best interests of our passtime in mind.
BTW, and for the record, you didn't come close to offending me. In my line of work I get called things that would make a trucker blush. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
You are correct, bowhunters are just people. As such, not all of them will agree on all issues. At the end of the day though, most of us (and I firmly believe that you are included here as well) have our hearts in the right place, and only the best interests of our passtime in mind.
BTW, and for the record, you didn't come close to offending me. In my line of work I get called things that would make a trucker blush. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW