are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
11-08-2002, 06:48 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fairfield pa USA
Posts: 109
are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
I am asking for input on this issue. On another thread a few people said said they didn't like the idea of a bow hunter's cometency test becouse we are already over regulated. I don't feel that I am over regulated at all about the only thing you can't do is shoot deer at night with a spot light. Give me some examples of how we are over regulated and how a bow hunting test would further restrict you.
11-08-2002, 07:20 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MIRA LOMA CA USA
Posts: 10
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
I for one aggree with the trend for BowHunter education requirements. I feel that it will weed out some of the ones we dont want out there anyway. I believe there is always something left to learn, and I was very impressed with the calibre of people who attended the class that I did. Would be happy to hunt with, or invite any of them to hunt with me. I used to teach Firearms Safety In Arizona. Knowing those kids had at least proper training gave me a very good feeling. Of 45-50 who graduated I only know of 1 who got into trouble. I have seen a post ending with something like, "Take a kid hunting and you won't be hunting for the kid".How True!! Anyway take a BowHunter class I bet you'll be glad you did. Just my $0.02
Jeff
Jeff
11-08-2002, 07:30 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>I was waiting for some examples of "too much regulation" myself from the other thread. Maybe someone could also explain how they feel a competency test would hurt bowhunting rather than help it<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
<---Doug---<<<
<---Doug---<<<
11-08-2002, 08:56 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Palmyra PA USA
Posts: 292
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
As to a shooting test...it would prove nothing other that a hunter either can or cannot pass some arbitrary standard.
Case 1: For years Hunter A has limited his shots to 15 yds due to his own abilities. He's a Class A hunter who takes game cleanly year after year. But upon taking a test, he doesn't meet someone's idea of "proficient" so he can no longer hunt. The test failed to do anything here, but burn a seasoned hunter.
Case 2: Hunter B can stack all his arrows in a 6" bull at 60 yds. He passes the shooting test with flying colors. Then he goes out in the woods and takes 100 yd Hail Mary's at every deer he sees. The test failed here as well, as it can't predict or enforce a hunters decisions or actions.
Case 3: Hunter C takes his 40# scoped paper target bow to the proficiency test, which he passes. But, he uses a 70# hard cam bow to hunt with, which he may not have been able to pass the test with. The test failed to serve any purpose here as well.
Cost and Logistics: Who is going to fund this "test"? Hunters? Taxpayers? Who will coordinate the locations and dates of the tests so that bowhunters can take it within reasonable travel distances and time constraints? (There's ~300,000 bowhunters that Pennsylvania alone would have to accomodate.) If a bowhunter did not pass the "test", how often could he retake it? Immediately? Next day? Next week? Surely he could retake it, right? And if he could retake it, sooner or later the odds would land in his favor. So what's the purpose?
A proficiency test would be nothing more than costly hassle for bowhunters...hoops to jump through in order to recieve a meaningless little gold star.
Case 1: For years Hunter A has limited his shots to 15 yds due to his own abilities. He's a Class A hunter who takes game cleanly year after year. But upon taking a test, he doesn't meet someone's idea of "proficient" so he can no longer hunt. The test failed to do anything here, but burn a seasoned hunter.
Case 2: Hunter B can stack all his arrows in a 6" bull at 60 yds. He passes the shooting test with flying colors. Then he goes out in the woods and takes 100 yd Hail Mary's at every deer he sees. The test failed here as well, as it can't predict or enforce a hunters decisions or actions.
Case 3: Hunter C takes his 40# scoped paper target bow to the proficiency test, which he passes. But, he uses a 70# hard cam bow to hunt with, which he may not have been able to pass the test with. The test failed to serve any purpose here as well.
Cost and Logistics: Who is going to fund this "test"? Hunters? Taxpayers? Who will coordinate the locations and dates of the tests so that bowhunters can take it within reasonable travel distances and time constraints? (There's ~300,000 bowhunters that Pennsylvania alone would have to accomodate.) If a bowhunter did not pass the "test", how often could he retake it? Immediately? Next day? Next week? Surely he could retake it, right? And if he could retake it, sooner or later the odds would land in his favor. So what's the purpose?
A proficiency test would be nothing more than costly hassle for bowhunters...hoops to jump through in order to recieve a meaningless little gold star.
11-08-2002, 09:34 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
I do agree to some extent, but on the other hand AK. I hunted at Quantico VA. last year and you have to take a shooting test off an elevated platform at various unknown distances from about 10 - 30 yards. The target was a paper plate. A couple of hunters could not hit a pie plate at 15 yards, and one in particular had 3 or 4 different size and length arrows and had about a 20" group at 20 yards. I'm really glad that they were not allowed to hunt in the same woods that I would be hunting in!!! It might not be perfect but at least it would be a start in keeping people like that guy out of the woods and maybe avoid a really bad situation.
11-08-2002, 09:54 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 858
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
You can't expect a class to teach someone to be a moral and ethical person, which is what much of bowhunting is about IMO. If a guy's gonna try a hail mary @100yrds, he doesn't CARE if he really thinks he can make it or not. And I really don't see any reasonably seasoned hunter not being able to pass an entry level shooting test or least of all quitting hunting. So MAYBE he practices a little more?
What it will prevent is 2 drunk guys on Friday saying " My brother's got a couple a bows let's head up north this weekend and kill stuff!" Without the Card or test or whatever= No license.
(oddly enough that's how I got started in Bowhunting though!LOL)
Trushot }}------>
What it will prevent is 2 drunk guys on Friday saying " My brother's got a couple a bows let's head up north this weekend and kill stuff!" Without the Card or test or whatever= No license.
(oddly enough that's how I got started in Bowhunting though!LOL)
Trushot }}------>
11-09-2002, 01:56 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saint joseph missouri USA
Posts: 548
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
What it will prevent is 2 drunk guys on Friday saying " My brother's got a couple a bows let's head up north this weekend and kill stuff!" Without the Card or test or whatever= No license.
(oddly enough that's how I got started in Bowhunting though!LOL)
Trushot }}------>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Would it really stop them?? For rifle hunting here in Missouri, if you were born after a certain date (Jan.1,1967), you must complete a hunters safety course.
I have been hunting since I was 5 years old in some way or another. I was born in April of '67. As I stated in the other post,my father, grandfather, and uncles taught me the correct way to hunt and to be a sportsman.
Now, I had to take the test. But, it still is perfectly legal for my mother, who has never shot a weapon in her life, let alone even held a firearm, to go to the nearest Wal-Mart, buy a gun, ammo, and a license and head out into the timber. Will she ever do this? No. But even if she took the test, this still wouldn't make her qualified or experienced enough to go out in the timber and start blazin' away as far as you and I are concerned. But, it would be legal.
So, should there be a test for bowhnters? Maybe there should be, but voluntary only. Because making them mandatory, or setting them up for certain age limits, will not stop them from going out and doing stupid things. That is, and should be left up to the individual to be responsible for his/her actions.
What it will prevent is 2 drunk guys on Friday saying " My brother's got a couple a bows let's head up north this weekend and kill stuff!" Without the Card or test or whatever= No license.
(oddly enough that's how I got started in Bowhunting though!LOL)
Trushot }}------>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Would it really stop them?? For rifle hunting here in Missouri, if you were born after a certain date (Jan.1,1967), you must complete a hunters safety course.
I have been hunting since I was 5 years old in some way or another. I was born in April of '67. As I stated in the other post,my father, grandfather, and uncles taught me the correct way to hunt and to be a sportsman.
Now, I had to take the test. But, it still is perfectly legal for my mother, who has never shot a weapon in her life, let alone even held a firearm, to go to the nearest Wal-Mart, buy a gun, ammo, and a license and head out into the timber. Will she ever do this? No. But even if she took the test, this still wouldn't make her qualified or experienced enough to go out in the timber and start blazin' away as far as you and I are concerned. But, it would be legal.
So, should there be a test for bowhnters? Maybe there should be, but voluntary only. Because making them mandatory, or setting them up for certain age limits, will not stop them from going out and doing stupid things. That is, and should be left up to the individual to be responsible for his/her actions.
11-09-2002, 08:32 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 1,665
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
Most Alaska bowhunters are required to take a proficiency shooting exam to be able to hunt any area restricted to archery only in the state. If you already have an IBEP or NBEF card from another state, you do not need to pass the proficiency shooting exam. I have talked to people that are on both sides of the fence on this one. All make valid points, but when it all boils down, it gets to be downright discriminitory against bowhunters to have to "prove" themselves before they can take their weapon into the woods to be able to perform a God's given right, hunt. I am all for education, ethics, knowledge of your weapon, be it a gun or bow, and all for new people to begin hunting themselves. I am against new restrictions, new laws, requirements and baseline standards to be set however. If proficiency exams are going to be required, I feel it should be accross the board for all weapons, not just archery. I've heard time and time again from hunters, biologists and enforcement agents say that just as many, if not more animals are wounded due to firearms than archery. Why isn't this a large issue with gun hunters then?
I think AK has valid points, but then again, any new regulation or requirement is not going to make everybody happy. I don't see why a proficiency test would be bad think under any of his reasons.
Case #1, if that person can effectively and routinely shoot out to 15 yards at wild game, what would restrict him from hitting a target in a set up situation even out to 30 yards? It might make him upset, he might have to practice some to get proficient out to that range, but if that standard is set, he is going to be one of the people that is effected and has to deal with it.
Case #2, there is no way to regulate ethics. This type of hunter is our black eye, but is no excuse to eliminate a program that would help teach the majority.
Case #3, The course could be set up to use legal archery equipment for hunting. People buy and sell bows all the time, people have different bows for different types of hunting. We aren't checking equipment, we are checking an individuals proficiency, and I think it should be done with a bow that is set up to legally hunt with. Once again, the handfull of people that would do that is not the majority of the hunters.
I see no reason to not enact shooting proficiency's for all types of hunting. I would not gripe at the fact of having to take it, but could see why many people, even the best of shooters, would. It's a standard set by Joe Schmoe that will tell you if you are good enough or not, according to his rules, to hunt. The reality is though, that there is an issue to be delt with, and I think education is a great start. If people aren't going to take the education, then maybe we have to require it.
ArcticBowMan's Hunting Photo's
I think AK has valid points, but then again, any new regulation or requirement is not going to make everybody happy. I don't see why a proficiency test would be bad think under any of his reasons.
Case #1, if that person can effectively and routinely shoot out to 15 yards at wild game, what would restrict him from hitting a target in a set up situation even out to 30 yards? It might make him upset, he might have to practice some to get proficient out to that range, but if that standard is set, he is going to be one of the people that is effected and has to deal with it.
Case #2, there is no way to regulate ethics. This type of hunter is our black eye, but is no excuse to eliminate a program that would help teach the majority.
Case #3, The course could be set up to use legal archery equipment for hunting. People buy and sell bows all the time, people have different bows for different types of hunting. We aren't checking equipment, we are checking an individuals proficiency, and I think it should be done with a bow that is set up to legally hunt with. Once again, the handfull of people that would do that is not the majority of the hunters.
I see no reason to not enact shooting proficiency's for all types of hunting. I would not gripe at the fact of having to take it, but could see why many people, even the best of shooters, would. It's a standard set by Joe Schmoe that will tell you if you are good enough or not, according to his rules, to hunt. The reality is though, that there is an issue to be delt with, and I think education is a great start. If people aren't going to take the education, then maybe we have to require it.
ArcticBowMan's Hunting Photo's
11-09-2002, 10:08 PM
#10
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southeast Central Illinois USA
Posts: 6,969
RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
Hunter education classes are a good asset. I took it along with my son and was impressed, even though it was not necessary for me to take it. As far as making a bowhunter pass a shooting test to be able to obtain a bowhunting permint is a bad idea. Ethics are dealt with in hunter education courses.
More regulations and would pave the way for more regulations. Remember folks, hunting was learned by most of us by being taught by others who hunted before us. Its part of the hunting tradition. There is no way we can regulate shots in the field under "real" circumstances. Hunting is also a learning process through experience.......sorry but thats the way it is. You might keep a few bad shots out of the field but you might also keep a few good seasoned hunters out of the field who may not be able to stack arrows on a target but who take good shots and kill their game quickly. Education is the answer not restrictions!
More regulations and would pave the way for more regulations. Remember folks, hunting was learned by most of us by being taught by others who hunted before us. Its part of the hunting tradition. There is no way we can regulate shots in the field under "real" circumstances. Hunting is also a learning process through experience.......sorry but thats the way it is. You might keep a few bad shots out of the field but you might also keep a few good seasoned hunters out of the field who may not be able to stack arrows on a target but who take good shots and kill their game quickly. Education is the answer not restrictions!