Krisken, Maine is much better! I was born there, but left very young.

I think the best way we can improve bowhunting is to be vocal, and be involved. I have friends who think one way, and I tell them what I think, and after awhile I seem to sway them to higher standards. We can only point the way, not force people to do things. But we can't change everyone.

I don't think bowhunting in MO is overregulated. But I don't want it to become that way either!

--Jim

quote "who are you to tell me I am not good enough to go hunting" If you are out there wounding numerous deer and flinging arrows 50 and 75 yrds. I will tell you your not good enough to hunt even if you don't like it. I am sorry but there are alot of people who have no buisnes hunting even if they are using sticks or rock's becouse they still have a good chance of hurting someone or themselves.

Quote " who deterimines the distance for me" All we are saying is the test is at some thing like 20 yrds. not that thats all the further you can shoot. If your friend can shoot good at 10 he can shoot at 2o yrds. too come on don't play games we all shoot bow here and you I and every one here knows that any one who has a tuned bow good arrows and a little practice can shoot at 20 yrds. it certainly doesn't take an archery world champion to hit a pie plate at 20 yrds.


Quote " why don't we leave it like it is when our mentors learned my decision is for me?" Becouse so many new people are getting into bow hunting that don't have mentors or don't have mentors that are capable of teaching them properly. Becouse we are becoming over run with slob hunter's.

SW. I understand that you are worried about being over run with reg.s but look at how long the hunter's saftey course has been alone there are many ways they make it harder for people to pass but they don't and I don't believe that they will over run this either. These programs are run by game agency's not government or anti's.

In Iowa the hunter safety course is only pass no fail. If you attend all the hours you pass.

Why do we stop at 20 yards is what I want to know? I bet (don't know for sure) that more deer are wounded and lost at 20 yards than at 40 or 50!!

My logic is this most people are unable to hit a deer at that distance without alot of practice. Most of the posts about wounding animals are at distances under 30 yards.

Why not make the tests harder so we can regulate the bowhunters out there even more. If you are a true bowhunter and can shoot out to 30 yards (which is the distance I have heard most bowhunters use, as well as my own set limit) then you should be able to with alittle more practice shoot a pie time at 40 yards. This is the argument you would hear in a very short time if there was a test. Who would be making this argument? Someone other than the hunters on this forum.

I am not afraid of the test if it could be agreed upon that it would be at 20 yards 6 for 6 in a pie tin then go for it. I don't think that it would stay at those standards. If you can't regulate where the regulations are going to end up then don't start regulating anything.

I do like the idea of a mandatory bow course in eithical hunting and tracking, much like the hunter safety course. We have a small section of it in our hunter safety course and it would be easy to insert it into all courses with little effort and little extra money.

" Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad"

SW. you say you have no problem if it stay's at 20 yrds. 6 for 6 in a pie plate but it won't they will change it. WHY? WHO WILL CHANGE IT? HOW ? THEY?,THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED ANY THING ELSE INCLUDING HUNTER'S SAFTEY. In MD. and PA. the courses are pass or fail you take a test and if you fail you have to take the class again. I think you are too paranoid SJ. but I do understand why you just care about your hunting and don't want to loose it but I don't think you will have any thing to worry about. If they were going to make it harder they would already be doing with saftey course. You even said your self in your state you can't even fail. If they were going to make it harder they surly would of already started there right?

<font color=red>&quot;To the guy crying becouse his buddy only shoots 10 yrds. I guess he wil;l just have to learn to shoot 20 it's not that much of distance sorry. I don't belive that he can't hit the broad side of a barn at 20 yrds. but at 10 he splits nocks baloney I have been around competion shooting too long. I know alot of guy's who shoot trad. and 20 yrds. is no problem for a traditional shooter so he'll just have to practice.&quot;</font id=red>

First, I'd ask that you tone down your hostility and name-calling. It's uncalled for, childish, and not exactly condusive to your point.

Second, I never said the he &quot;can't hit the broad side of a barn at 20 yrds&quot;, or that &quot;at 10 he splits nocks&quot;. If you're going to comment about something I said, please don't lie about what I wrote. It's insulting at best.

What I said was that he is not proficient enough to hit the kill zone routinely at 20 yards, so he limits himself to about 10. With that self-imposed limitation, last year alone, he cleanly killed five deer, one of which was 1/2&quot; from P&Y...with no wounding loss.

While I think that his track record of clean kills (again, FIVE in one season) speaks volumes as to his proficiency in real-life hunting situations, you seem to want to make hitting a paper plate on a range more apropriate. Why, I have absolutely no idea.

<font color=red>&quot;I have been around competion shooting too long&quot;</font id=red>

With all due respect, perhaps that's the problem. Often times the folks that I hear braying about proficiency tests are cut-rate competitive shooters who wouldn't know venison if it came pre-labeled with red ink. Not saying that applies to you, but I have noticed a pattern with some.

BTW, when you've taken more than four consecutive State Championships, two consecutive NFAA Sectional Championships, and National Championship Runner-up...all in two years of competition...come talk to me. When you've repeatedly outshot the last two IBO Nat'l Triple Crown Champions in your class...give me a holler. Until then, I'm not much impressed with your competitive shooting statement, because your dog's barking up the wrong tree.

JRW

Edited by - jrw on 11/11/2002 20:55:52

Grim- you sure you want to call out this Arizona boy? I never claimed that bowhunting was over regulated. Go back and read what I said on both threads. Now I understand how the east lost the constitutional right to keep and BEAR arms. Our gun laws are wide open and even Sarah Brady could get a CCW permit and guess what-our crime rates are dropping fast since we passed that law. Point is if you start helping to pass laws that don't do a frickin thing but make hunting a pain in the butt then don't come whining to me when you lose that right too. And I do just fine in the woods with my bow and my ethics so I doubt that your comments about being afraid to take the government mandated anti-idiot test was meant for me. Good hunting. Glen Harwell.

Grim Reaper,

On the &quot;Idiots, Idiots, Idiots&quot; thread, you said:

<font color=blue>&quot;NMAINERON your darn right you should have to take a test before you can go hunt. You have to learn to fly an air plane before you may fly. You have to learn to drive before getting your license and you sure as h#ll should have to learn and take a test on your ability to cleanly kill an animal and not wound it.&quot;</font id=blue> (bold, mine)

Then, you say that the guy in my post, who cleanly killed five deer last year with no wounding losses, at about 10 yards or less does NOT meet your criteria as proficient?

Well, which is it? Is it about your <font color=red>&quot;ability to cleanly kill an animal and not wound it&quot;</font id=red>, or about your ability to kill the elusive woodland pie plate at 20 yards?

I'm not trying to pick on you, are start a flame-fest, but a little consistency seems to be lacking in your arguments. Could you make up your mind and get back to me? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

JRW

Edited by - jrw on 11/11/2002 21:58:01

very interesting, I am not a cut rate competetive archer..&gt;Thanks JRW for the complement!

Sorry but to much hypothetical BS for my tastes! We have it, there is no one other then bowhunters running it supported by the state! Its a shame yall think that way!

Also to the deer killer, I am sure he can hit an elk at 28 yards 1 out or 2 times!




One thing yall keep missing on the point here. Atleast up here, this proficency testing IS NOT TO DISCRIMINATE. I'll tell ya, even the stickbow guys can make an easy and quick change to nab that elk if need be and go back to there comfortable range of 15 or 10 yards. Also considering our targets here. There are VERY FEW people on here that WOULD NOT shoot a moose at 30 yards. There are many more that wouldnt shoot a deer sized critter. The only thing in this test is to make sure you know what your doing, when ya walk up with price tags hanging off your bows, your dang right your going to get a blind eye from everyone there!

Jerry is the ONLY alaskan bowhunter I have MET that doesnt agree with the proficency testing!

This testing has been around and hasnt been touched by anti's!

btw JRW, your dang right trad bows are just as accurate as anything on the market. Its a shame so many stickbow benders shoot like crap and blame there equipment. Heck even wheelie folks do the same! There is just no excuse for it......wow, another reason for the proficency testing! OMG

I like this, warm and fuzzy PR move....sorry charlie, its all in education! There is going to be NOTHING that makes EVERYONE happy....right now its a matter of policing our own! And this hole deal of making so they cant hunt......considering 90-95% of the state is wide open, thats what 2 and 2/3rds the amount of land texas has....gee!

Dan,

First....BIG HUG!!! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Second...you're talking apples, I'm talking oranges. I know what you're saying about Alaska, but I'm talking about state-wide proficiency tests to hunt anywhere in the state. I don't know how ARA's are in AK, but around here they're thick like gnats. You give them a half a foot in the door, and they're setting up shop.

Hey, have fun up there. Lord knows I would if I were you.

JRW

I have seen a number of people here on this thread who keep saying what if we get an anti setting our regs, we could be shooting ping pong balls at 50 yards in order to bow hunt. What state do you all live in? In Va. seasons and bag limits are set by state bioligist, reg changes are recommended by hunters themselves for the most part in conjuction with the state bioligist. There are counties in Va. due to the flatness it is shotgun only, some of them require buckshot only due to flatness of the terrain also. Minimum calibers and legal size broadheads and bow strength is also set basically with hunters input.

I am sorry folks, but what is wrong with a sensible competancey test that is set by bow hunters?

If anything we stand a far less chance of getting bad press with less wounded deer due to the guy who buys a bow and can't hit didly at 20 yards gut shooting deer or doing 60 yard hail marys!

We as bowhunters need to do our best to ensure that those that join our ranks are going to at least be educated in ethics, shot placement, tracking, and a certain amount of competancy in our weapon of choice or we will give the antis more ammo to possibly eleminate bow hunting.

Think about it, if the antis were put in charge would they waste there time having us shoot ping pong balls or simply ban it?

I must say I find it amusing how some of the same people who down someone for cleanly killing a button, a fawn, or anything less than a P&Y feel that it is okay for someone to bow hunt that can't hit crap.
This makes no sense to me, some of you ride on this massive stallion of ethics and then turn around and say that it is ethical for someone who can't put 5 out of 6 in a pie plate at 20 yards an ethical hunter! Is this the person you want to represent our sport? Do we want to give the antis more wounded and lost deer than what there already is out there or do we want fewer?

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club