gawd I wish I'd have gotten in on this sooner !

fair chase is in your own mind - I agree. But Hunting and what hunting is can be defined I believe.

in life, nothing is worth anything unless you put something into it, and the more you put into it, the more you get out of it.

People going into the fenced enclosures are getting nothing out of it.

People shooting high tech equipment and using the latest and greatest stuffs, gadgets etc are cheating what hunting is - instead of taking the road less traveled, instead of putting a LOT into it, they are instead taking shortcuts and putting LESS into it.

and in return they get less

The use of high tech equipment does not make the hunt any less worthwhile, any less memorable, or any less enjoyable.

How is it that those of us who take these "shortcuts" as you call them, are getting less out of it?

I put in the same amount of work scouting the land, hanging stands, practicing with my equipment, and everything else that goes into a hunt as anyone else. How is it that this amount of work somehow yields less than someone using primative equipment?

Why do people shoot compounds instead of recurve ?

Honeslty answer that question, because the answer is it increases your chances of killing an animal, with less effort and work. You don't have to wait for that 20 yar shot, you can take a 30 yard shot. No need for daily practice, one a week or two is good. No need to learn to shoot finger - you got a release. No need to learn to pick a spot - put the pin where you want the arrow to go. No need to train your muscles and hand/eye coordination - you got 80% letoff.

See ?

If you work all summer and earn enough to buy a new rifle, do you appreciate it ? Yes you will, and you'll treat it with respect, because you earned it.

If I go out the same evening you buy your rifle, and I steal one just like it after laying around all summer, can you say that I'll appreciate mine the same ? Or if my rich Daddy buys me one ..... ?

You know the answer.

You built your compound, like a primitive hunter cut his osage and made his bow ? You walk everywhere instead of using an ATV ? You've learned to master the art of stalking game instead of using tree stands ? You don't use scent lock etc, but rather you've learned the art of using the wind ? You don't use trail cameras and feeders etc, but rather you've learned to read the signs in the woods on how and where deer travel ?

See ?

tell me this - what was the last piece of archery equipment or hunting equipment you bought and why ?

meaning ........ was the item meant to make the filling of your tag easier ? Was it a piece of equipment to help eliminate a certain part of the sport ?

Like a game camera - they eliminate part of scouting
Like mechanical heads - they eliminate the critical parts of tuning your bow
Like a release for your bow - eliminates the need to learn to shoot fingers well


Me ? I bought a unch of Wensel Woodsman broadheads. Why ? I wanted a 3 blade head, and a bigger one that what I've used before. I could have went with Phantoms, or Sonics, or Stingers (I like those BTW) but instead I chose WW's for a variety of reasons. one of those is that I have to LEARN how to sharpen them. I literally spent hours already working on getting them sharp.

A small aspect of my hunts, sure, but if I kill this fall, I can say I was the one sho sharpened that head to a razor edge.

At some point I'd like to go primitive and knap my own, but its a progression I've found. Every time I make my hunt HARDER, it becomes more rewarding.

Every time I put more effort into what I'm doing, the more reward I get from it.

Don't generalize so much.

I may shoot a compound, but I practice with it every day. My muscles still need to be trained, as I shoot with 65% let off. I still have to pick a spot, that pin has to be in the right place for a quick, clean kill.

Stealing rifles? What? No one is stealing game animals. I worked for the bow I own, so what was your point here?

No, I didn't build my compound, but that doesn't mean a thing. Yes, I walk everywhere because I find that using an ATV makes the hunt less of a challenge. I don't own a lick of clothing made for blocking scent, I hunt the wind. I don't own a trail cam nor do I own a feeder. Likewise I don't throw out piles of corn. I hunt the trails. Yes, I can read the sign.

Please don't generalize.

Why not, its easy to do and often I'm right on the frickin money.


Who are you trying to kid ? You shoot a compound because you don't want to put the effort into learning a recurve. You want the speed, the power, the sights, the release, the letoff ......... you want it easier.

And no, you do not pick a spot. Thats a HUGE misnomer in the bowhunting world of compounds. You pick a spot and then ....... cover it up ? How can you focus on the spot when its covered up with your pin ?

You can't. And the further the target, the more area the pin covers up.

I know ........ I hunted with compounds for 12-13 years and shot more arrows than most guys in their lifetimes.


You totally missed it. My point was that things that are earned are respected and cherished and they MEAN something.

A better scenario is you hunting public lands and shooting a 150" buck, and me paying for an EBAY hunt and shooting a 150" - which of our bucks mean more ? You know the answer ........ yours does. Why ?


Oh good gawd. When you search the woods, cut the tree, spend hours and hours making the stave into a bow, tillering it, taking the rings down, breaking a few and then having one come out that shoots and killing something with it ......... you cannot see how much the greater reward would be ? Even the bow itsself has a great value - much more personal and intimate than the compound you bought from Cabela's


ATV users will hate you for saying that you know ?


People who use scentlok will hate you for saying that.

Then you kinda get what I'm saying, don't you ? The above things you don't do ........ why ?

I'm very good at it. You see the things I see Washington Hunterwhen we look at others. Where you're lacking is when I look at you, and you cannot see what I see.

Your compound bow is a shortcut, its the easy route, it takes away from your hunt just like ATV's, cameras and piles of corn.

And honesly, I can look at myself and see that my laminated longbow I use takes away from my hunt when a man who builds primitve equipment looks at me. And I know this

I can see your points, you're correct.

Funny thing you mention recurves, considering thats what I started with. I was proficient with it up to 70 yards -- I was putting 5 arrows in a paper plate at 70 yards, instinctively. I was9 at the time it was purchased for me.

I'm not bragging, I'm simply letting you know that I've been down both roads. I have never hunted with my recurve, but I plan to eventually.

You're getting off track though, hunting with recurves or compounds, one isnt any more fair chase than the other. One may be more diffcult to master, but a skilled archer with either piece of equipment can kill an animal.

The harder you hunt, the more rewarding the experience, correct. However, I don't feel that the equipment I use interferes with the outcome of my experience.

The word harvest is used soften a meaning...........not change it..........and the way some deer are grown and killed today harvest actually fits better..........because if it resembles farming more then hunting then harvest is a better fit.

I still don't see where "fair chase" fits..............anywhere.

I hunt the same as you do.

I'm not mad at all..........just think it is a stupid rallying cry.



Why?


I disagree.