Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I only ask the question. It's something that I've been pondering lately. When I started bowhunting, any buck was a trophy. In the late season, any deer was a trophy. Now, unless it's "Book", no one is impressed. Hunters are name-dropping "xxx class" bucks here, and"shooter" bucks there. Have we turned bowhunting into another form of "wienie measuring"?

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I believe that the obsession with trophy hunting is corrupting hunting in general , not just bow hunting .

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I would have to agree to an extent. Some areas will never produce monster bucks and trying to hold the people who hunt those areas to "monster bucks" standards is a sucking the fun right out of hunting for a lot of people.
Some parts of the country a 130" deer is a HUGE deer, in others it's so everyday it doesn't get noticed.

I'm not against letting the young ones walk, but waiting for each buck to wear dentures before allowing him to be shot isn't so much hunting as it is selective harvesting.

I say let each buck be larger (bigger rack or larger body)than the last &hunt the bigger deer for your area.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Unless you live in one of the "states" you have less of a chance at shooting a record book buck. I hunt and always have hunted for the passion of the woods, deer, and time with family. I grew up a "meat" hunter and still am to some extent. I have shot three nice bucks that have scored over 125 with a bow, but that was because I saw them first. A three pointer or a nice fat doe is considered by me to still be a trophy.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I myself would also agree with the rest of you. Why is it that you hardley hear of any pros shooting a fork or a small 6 or spike when they have then right in front of them a perfect shot, then a nice bick 10-14 pointer will comeout and theyll take a shot and screw it up. Yet part of me also has to disagree. This year there are 3 of us that hunt 300 acres and with the amount of does and fawns we had last year, some of you remember my horror stories, we have decided to take only 130 class or higher bucks this year and we must have them mounted. In the past we have been harvesting too many young bucks that had great potential. No more. We know we have some really nice bucks on our property, now its time to work for the big ones. The only we time we are allowing ourselves to shoot any cullbucks is in the last few days of the archery season, during the gun season we are going to take anything withantlers 5 points or more. We beileve pacing our our management isgoing to help out our herd and allow for bigger healthier bucks and give us the sucess that we are looking for. 52 days left till opening season, that reminds me, I have to put out another 20 lbs of mineral at one of my stand sites, the deer have gone trhough 60lbs of mineral in a matter of 3-4 weeks.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

So has bowhunting been corupt since the P&Y days? I see your point, but would have to disagree.

Just because we don't hear of the "bigtime hunters" shooting spikes, forks, messed up racks doesn't mean it does not happen. There is a time land management and herd management and thats when these types of deer get blasted.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Good question. I wait for what is a trophy class buck to me. I just like arrowing bigger bucks. All states can produce big bucks if the states wildlife service handels it properly. In Kansas you get one buck tag. You have to make your choice weather it will be bow, riffel, or muzzle loader. One buck tag period. You can get several doe tags. There is a myth about big bucks. yes they grow here in Kansas but you have to work your tail off to even see one. I have hunted Kansas all my life and can count on one hand the 160 or better class bucks I have seen while in the stand. I promise ya the only way to get a bigger buck is to let the small ones walk. Its up to the individual to make their choice.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

It goes both ways ,the quest to fill my game room has me bow hunting more and more ,both in days and in other state .So in my case it has promoted the sport.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I don't think it has. It is whatever brings each person satisfaction. Some are happy with any deer and others set their goals high; whatever trips your trigger. HCH

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I believe it has affected a "portion" of the hunting family much worse than others. The much larger majority of hunters, the guy who gets out on a few weekends only, will usually still appreciate and be proud of any deer that they harvest. It seems the major difference is that some now feel so strongly about their own personal harvest criteria, for example thezealous QDM crowd, that they have lost the ability to relate to the average hunter who really is happy with and proud of any deer. I also think that with about 100 times more media coverage and material than there was even 10 years ago showing 140" and 150" bucks coming into every grunt, bleat and rattle the expectation of some of the newer hunters is being slanted as they are being bombarded by the film shot on strictly managed and often very expensive private land.

I do not think it is corrupting bowhunting though. I do think it is adversely affecting the personal satisfaction and enjoyment that some are experiencing because of self imposed expectations set up by this newer culture/infatuation with larger antleredbucks.

Just look on this board this fall, the huge majority of the deer pictures will be smiling guys holding 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 year old deer, which I love to see.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I don't think corrupting is the word I would use, but I do think the big buck obsession has effected hunting in general.

I don't blame anyone for managing the herd on there land to produce bigger deer if that is what they want to do. It takes a lot of work, patience and will power to be able to do that.

There are some hunters out there that look down there noses at anyone who shoots a 1.5 year old buck as if he/she is less of a hunter. This atitude is what bother me. The TV shows are part of the problem when it comes down to realistic expectations fo the hunt.

I watch them as if I were watching a movie. Entertainment, but not reality...............for me anyways;)

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I really could care less what someone might think of me for what size deer I shoot, tho I prefer to shoot matures bucks and does. For the initial question.......................................... .................................................
I do believe the quest for big bucks in itself is a fine idea, BUT this quest is causing many problems such as, increased leasing and outfitting( I only mention outfitting because some outfitters have no business calling themselves outfitters). This in turn leads to reduced opportunities for many hunters and increases pressure on public lands. Its also increased trespassing because the temptation to shoot a nice buck overrides common sense in some people. I have also known friends to become non-friends over a big buck, because they both thought they were entitled to that buck, simply forgetting they are players and that deer on un-highfenced land is the public's deer. JMO.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Interesting topic. Do I think its corrupting? Not at all. I have shot several dozens of deer with the bow and now I find myself just looking for a particular deer with a good set of horns. This goal allows me to spend more quality time in the woods as compared to 1 to 3 days of hunting, shooting a small buck, and then no more hunting.

I hunt my own private land and I always have a couple of shooters running around. It is a special feeling to scout and figure out the special routes these bruisers use. They don't get big because they are stupid. I spend countless hours scouting these deer and enjoying the woods.

There are some out there that thumb their noses at hunters that shoot little bucks. Thats pure baloney. Personal goals are just what they say, personal. If someone belittles one that shoots a smaller buck? Then he is no sportsman in my opinion.

I know, I ramble at times :D

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

First....I won't criticize what another hunter takes....or passes on. It's his business.

I live in Wesern NC.....and the tracts "I" hunt are relatively small compared to what some of you guys are hunting (anywhere from 24 to 200 acres). I've already scouted 2 8's on one tract that are "interesting" to me. One moreso than the other.....and he's not the largest racked buck, there. He's the most mature.

I work "fairly' diligently to make sure my son and I have places to hunt each year. I was out working a tract, last night.

I'm a man....but I don't mind saying when something bothers me. I know guys around here that pay big $$ to go (________________) to hunt whitetails......and they typically have a few very large (compared to a LOT of deer around here) mounts (that were SHOT WITH A GUN.....from 250 yds......). I bust my tail......cultivate relationships with landowners.....scout.....do my in-woods time (and believe me....this is the part I LOVE).....and yet everyone will look at the trophy rooms of my friends and assume they're "HUNTERS". I'd be lying if I said that didn't bother me.

I don;t want anyone to think I have ANYTHING against gun hunting, either. I don't. I just happen to believe (And I'm entitled to my opinion).....that the feeling of walking into the woods with a bow....and becoming the ULTIMATE predator....is a feeling like NO other. It's also (again...in MY opinion) THE MOST sporting manner in which to pursue these VERY WORTHY adversaries.

My"trophy"...I hope....will be evident when I watch my son teach his......the things I taught him. These deer........they're each VERY personal...and they're ALL "trophies". There's a LOT more that goes intothe harvest of an animal than an accumulation of inches and a photo. I want to see MORE of those 4 pointers with the man and his son/daughter BOTH in the photo. NowTHERE's a TROPHY!

Jeff

Jeff, WAAAY back in the old days, we had a little honor that moderators would bestow on someone called the Honorary Award for Outstanding Post or something to that effect... Consider it awarded. ;)

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Corruption is a good word for it. Here in the west, the fixation on rack size by a minority of hunters has had 2 corrupting effects. First, it has put a cash value on wildlife, turning trophy animals into a commodity rather than a resource. Second, it has altered state management objectives and practices in order to produce trophty racks rather than healthy herds. The net result is that hunting is fast becoming a rich man's sport.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Outstanding post SB. I couldn't agree more.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

SBGobblers,

Great post. I know exactly how you feel.


Zach

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

How is the obsession to kill a big buck any different than the obsession to kill a little buck? The guys that kill the little bucks have the same obsession, except for the fact that they kill a little one instead of a big one. The guys that kill big bucks probably kill far less bucks than the other guys. What's the matter with selective hunting? I think that when you choose to be a selective hunter the obsession to just KILL is far less. I guess this is where i am supposed to say i don't have anything against someone that wants to shoot a small buck.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I feel exactly like this. I must add that although the pics I post are of the mature bucks that I shoot, I also shoot a lot of does. I'm guilty of not posting any doe pics. I don't think I've ever seen a thread titled, " Lets see those does." I strive to shoot at least one doe for every buck I take. Every deer that I take makes me happy. If it don't, I will not shoot it. It is a personal choice for every hunter. No one should be criticized for what they shoot.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

mlo:

I think the point is the "perception" that some people have that their(____) in. buck is somehow superior/inferior to the other guy's deer. I know for a fact that my son watches the bucks on TV......and compares them to the ones we have around here.

Here's a test...(and I mean ABSOLUTELY NO disrespect by this comment)......

Go watch some porn with your wife/girlfriend.....and let's have another discussion about "perception".

Remember to tell her, though.....they're ALL trophies!!

Jeff

(Once again....this was TOTALLY in jest....but helps bolster a point)

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I think too in a way it is the whole hunting sports. Me I would be glad to see a buck during bow or gun. Yes, I can understand the big rack, but as I see it, it is in the eyes of the hunter. The hunt, the shot, the animal. It may be an off rack, most wouldn't shoot, or smaller, but then where I hunt, if it has more then 4 it is a big one....... so I would remember every minute, the heart pounding the shaking arm, trying to steady myself and the legs wobbling or just collapsing after the shoot to keep from falling off the stand. THat is what the trophy is all about. The only deer I took with a bow has been a doe, but that was a trophy, I can remember shaking afterwards and trying to take the climber down without falling....... that doe was a trophy in my eyes, a shooter, success!~

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

every animal i shoot is considerd a trophy to me. cause its a trophy if i can put it in the fridge and slap it on the grill later, cause i eat every last inch of it. i just love meat that much.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Yes absolutely. The prevalence of QDM accross the country makes that quite clear.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

In most parts of the country they encourage taking does to reduce the herd. In Illinois you can only kill 2 bucks in total gun or bow, but you can get as many doe tags as you want. My opinion is to do what feels right to you,kill a doe or two for the meat,hold out for a bigger buck than the last one. Letting the smaller bucks go just gives you a better chance of getting the bigger buck someday.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I really like that answer....and it saved me saying it, thanks Gus.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

No more than a base-ball player trying to win the world series???

Not shooting little bucks is a good thing, and only leaves more bucks for guys to kill. JMHO....

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I agree that it is totally corrupting deer hunting. My friend was always a guy who would be happy with anything. Now he refuses to shoot anything that does not have antlers. It is sad really. I am glad that I have not gotten to that point yet and I will do my best to never get there. Though I would like to get a 'big one' I will not allow that to ruin my joy in hunting.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

If your friend is happy with himself waiting for the right deer, whats the problem. Does this make you unhappy for him? I hunt for big racks. Does that make me a bad hunter? I don't hunt for the meat although I eat it. I hunt for the joy of hunting, being in the woods all I can, and by hunting good racks I increase my time in the woods. I spent several years shooting any buck that came along. This gave me few days to enjoy the woods and its solitude. I think that to blanket all trophy hunters in the same fashion is wrong. You hunt and shoot what you want and I will mine. And lets not condemn each other for our preferences.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I have never killed what the TV shows would call a "Trophy Buck" My biggest buck to date is a 130" 10 pointer. And to me and my son he is a monster!!! My next biggest is a whole lot smaller than him.

I love hunting deer,(asdoes everyone that is reading this right now)
I will never be what some people call a "Trophy Hunter"
I'll be very proud to show all of you the pic if I'm able to shoot a 12" wide 8 pointer with my bow.
In Indiana we can only shoot one buck perseason. So some people around here will damn you if you shoot a 4 or 6 pointer with a bow because now you have to go through the firearm season with out a buck tag. Oh well!
I don't think any of y'all are wrong!Especially if you shootwhat YOU think is a trophy and what you shot fulfills your needs. Weatherthose needs areto hang something on the wall to show your buddies ora needto fill your freezer.
I sure did enjoy watching that big 10 pointer fall, but I can HONESTLY say that the 6 pointer I watched fall last year during bow season felt pretty damn good too!

So to answer you question, Corrupting I don't know I guess. But I do think the passion for a shooting a big buck has stopped a lot of people from enjoying the simple pleasures of hunting, by simply not filling their tags with "the big one".

And by the way, that trophy room I mention in my signature, it has more pics of me and my family and best friend hunting in it than it does antlers!!
Those memories are my "trophies"!!


And like basserman, I do ramble on too! Sorry!

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I think I'm kinf og on the fence on this one, as far the right term for it. I don't know many guys (0) that go out in the woods and before the set out say "Today, I'm going to try and kill the smallest buck in history." Everyone, for the most part, would love to shoot one real monster someday, however many of us won't. Because the people on TV are shooting monsters and that is what many hunters refer to for the standard to be upheld, those are the bucks that people strive to kill. Whether that is bad, I personally don't think it is. No one is going to be able to tell you what deer to harvest unless you are either in a high fence or some sort of hunting club with a size minimum, and with those scenarios, you know what you are getting into. I have never been able to figure out why people get pissed off about what someone else shoots or more common, what someone doesn't shoot. If someone passes on a buck that I think is a good buck, that deer has used up his chances because I will take him. my biggest deer to date is an 8-point that might go about 100" and I was happy as a pig in mud when I took that one. This year, I hope to do better and take that elusive monarch, but I don't think my wanting a big buck is going to corrupt anyone else.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I too agree that SB said it best...it would have been a good bookend to this thread.

The only thing I could add, even though others have touched on it is - that is does all depend.

Is the guy who shoots a doe for the freezer and then hunts for a big buck really obsessed?

I hope I am not.

I hope I have helped out my LOCAL deer herd by reducing the number of does we have LOCALLY (which has been determined as an overpopulation by the LOCAL DNR).

I hope that I am also doing the right thing by trying tounderstand the buck population in my LOCAL area.

If the area is holding 50 bucks:
2 - 5 year olds
3 - 4 year olds
8- 3 year olds
12 - 2 year olds
25- 1 year olds

Where I am at in my own PERSONAL point in my experience puts me to where I'd like to hunt for the top 10% in my LOCAL area (The (2) 5 year old and the (3) 4 year olds).

This is MY OWN challenge.

If the top 10% of the bucks in my LOCAL area are 130 8-pointers, then that will be a trophy to me.

Is this a Big Buck? Not on TV anymore. Is it a TROPHY...ABSOLUTELY.

Am I obsessed?

Again, I hope not :)

But if I am.....what a great obsession to have!... Amongst all the others out there.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Does it bother me to see someone kill small bucks where I hunt----yes, however if that individual has never harvested a buck then I amhappy for him!Where I huntwe have several big bucks and most of us want to have a shot at one, the waywe get those mature bucks is by letting the little ones grow up. If just killing a deer is "your" trophy then go for it. But don't give me a hard time about having a different preference. I have harvested several small bucks, but I have changed my preference since my younger day's. I am not out to corrupt hunting by letting little bucks grow and I think it is rediculous for someone to even think that way.I respect peoples decision on what they consider a trophy but they should not impose their trophy mentality on me.Look at it from a fishing perspective----"I think you should quit trying to catch a big bass cause your corrupting fishing" this does not make much sense to me! I guess it all boils down to personalambitions and experiences while hunting.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Ever notice that human beings are the only species on this planet that specifically target the biggest and healthiest animals to kill?

Ever notice that big bucks (deer) equal big money?

Ever notice that every year there are more and more farmers and land ownersthat are not allowing hunters to hunt their land but instead are leasing it out to hunting clubs, outfitters, professional guides, etc...?

Ever notice that these clubs, guides, and outfitters charge more and more money for the privelage to be able to hunt there ever larger growing heard of bucks?

Ever notice how the average redneck Joe can afford to hunt less and less every year because of the costs associated with big bucks?


IMHO the obsession to kill bigger and bigger bucks is definetly a contributing factor to the corrouption of hunting in general.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I think that the obsession to shoot ANY buck just because it has horns is worse than a guy who only wants to shoot a huge one. To qualify, anyone who is starting out, doesn't get much time to hunt, or has an extremely limited area can't be questioned. The ones that bug me are the guys who consistently shoot small bucks to brag "I got MY buck" The rack means nothing, the deer means nothing, they just want to be a 'man'. That I don't understand.

Do I think the obsession over big bucks is hurting? NO. It's brought exposure, and hunting tactics and ideas to many hunters. It's played a role in boosting the economy, guys will drop all kinds of $$$ if they think it'll help em get the big one.

I don't think it's right to look down on someone if it's a trophy to them. I also don't think a person should shoot a buck unless it means something to them.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Why does this "bug" you? Is it the bragging part of the shooting the small buck part that bugs you?

If it makes the guy happy to kill a small buck every year and he is happy enough to brag about it, whay does that bug you? How is that any different than shooting a big buck and bragging about it?

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

trophy hunting is not only good for the sport it is good for managment as well as long as you continue to shoot does and manage your population which is the way you will ever consitantly shoot trophy animals.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I am in agreement with Ryan and many others who have posted.As it relates to what Ryan has said I to am the most bothered by the hunter who "has" to shoot a buck,any buck or their own sense of self esteem or their thoughts of how they are perceived in their hunting community are diminished.To kill a buckbecause youthink you have to or to keep the string unbroken to me is an unhealthy obsession.I know very accomplished hunters that will go through an entire season with multipledoe tags in their pocket to kill a 11/2 year old buck in the tail end of the season.I don't know if I begrudge them that it, is more like I don't understand it.I do believe in QDM but as QDM'rs know it is habitat first,the animal second,and the hunter last.It is not antler restrictions and hunting snobberry.
Personally I will not kill a small buck for my area,has it corruptedme? I know it hasn't,my wife may disagree.I devote a lot of time to hunting and if I kill or don't kill my sense of worth is not hanging in the balance.I work at it and fortunately most years I am shooting good representative bucks for my area,but I am prepared not to kill a buck.
There certainly have been some negative aspects of antler fixation but I believe that is more representative of the mentality of the particular hunters that get caught up in it.We are all adults and can make decisions as to how we are going to pursue our passion,whether it is a balanced healthy way or a way that sacrifices are principles.Do i wonder why a guy or gal who has been hunting for 20 years and hunts a lot would shoot a young buck in an area loaded with doe's,yeah I wonder.I don't give them any grief about it,I just don't understand it.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I don't think the topic is questioning if it is right to shoot big bucks.I don't beleive anyone here would say it is wrong for a hunter to go after big deer. I think the problem is with those who shoot big deer and look down on the guys/gals that choose to fill their tag. Imyself try to hold out for a nice buck every year. I dotry and shoot a few does though. I would neverlook down onfellow hunter that shot a spike or a fork. I would be just as happy for themas i wouldbe if they shot a huge deer. As sportsmen and women we should notput down someone elses quarry just because it is not up toyour standards. Do what makes you happy but don't spoil it for others.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I believe that it is the vast reduction in available hunting land that is leading to more farmers leasing their land out and more "oufitters" showing up more than the supposed growing desire to shoot bigger deer. I honestly do not think that my tendencies would be a bit different if the hunting shows praised shooting small bucks. I have always been into hunting for 2 reasons. The first is to enjoy the outdoors and bring home some meat (does preferably here) and second for the challenge. I could literally shoot a small buck opening weekend almost every year if not every year. So, to me it wouldn't be fun without the extra challenge of having to shoot a mature buck. Notice I did not say record book deer. The rack is insignificant to me. I want an old, smartanimal that I have to work for.

I can't believe the slams against QDM on this thread. Practice it for a few years and I bet you change your mind. QDM doesn't mention rack size one time. It mentions age and buck to doe ratios. It encourages taking does. Also, taking a mature deer is not doing much to the herd because the 1.5 and 2.5 year olds do almost all of the breeding (over 90%). I don't know, I just guess that for an experienced hunter I can' tunderstand why so many would think my desire to challenge myself is corrupting hunting.

Sorry for the rambling. I wish EVERYONE luck in the coming season.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Gus,
The part that bugs me is that the guy ISN'T happy with his deer, but HAS to shoot one so that he can brag. That's the part I don't understand. The horns get tossed in the cellar or the garbage. Yea he'll eat the meat, but does and doetags are quite plentiful around here, so why not shoot one of them? Ahhhh because it isn't manly to shoot the doe.