RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Right on tsoc.....I hunt big racks these days. I look down at those that ridicule choices that others make. Those are the ones corrupting our passionate sport. Personal choice IMO

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I get disappointed if I hunt with someone and they shoot any buck under huge unless it's a specific area where deer just need to be killed. If I'm hunting from Sept through Dec then it's in a good area where big deer are common. I always encourage anyone to shoot huge. It's what the dream is all about. If I can share in their excitement, all the better. If it's at the end of the season, then it doesn't matter that much to me.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I dont know about you but when i got my first deer it was a little forky and i was tickled pink just to get a deer with a bow and i would gladly take another one and not be ashamed. It all depends in the person if he wants to shoot a small deer thats ok as long as you eat it

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

The way I look at it.
Theres a big diffrence between a Hunter and Trophy Hunter and that diffrence is one puts meat on the table while the other will go hungry.
The Hunter will keep his family fed, the Trophy Hunter willseek fame and fortune by doing so he will only corrupt himself.
Everyone is guilty of trying to get a bigger buck than he got last seasonThats not corupttion it is an obsession.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

RD, what if you shoot two or three doe's and fill your freezer but pass on small bucks?I don't like the insinuation that if you are a mature buck hunter that you are not taking care of your family,and that a trophy hunter is not a hunter.Any body who consistently kills big bucks on public land is the best of the best!

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Yes and with Does being a dime a dozen in a lot of states why not wait for a trophy? If you want meat drop a couple of Does one morning.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

No offense intended tsoc, its just my opinion ok let me reprase what I said in my last post.
All I meant was that some hunters will shoot any deer that walks by while other hunters go after a big wall hanger.
In my last sentence I said EVERYONE is guilty for wanting a bigger deer than they shot last season.
I didn't mean to stereotype anyone I was giving my opinion to this post like everyone else did.
Personely I will let a young buck live another year but when it comes to the end of season, hey you can't eat the antlers anyway.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

But its not ok to shoot a small buck and give it to a friend or a food bank? Explain that to me. I eat a couple of deer a year, but, I'll be honest with ya, if i wanted food, Walmart has meat a heck of alot cheaper than what I spend on venison. One thing in my mind has corrupted (your word, not mine) deer hunting. Greed. Plain and simple. I shoot whatever I want, I hunt to have a good time, not for fame and fortune, or anything else.Here's a question thatno one ever answers....is a 140 class deer still going to be a trophy when they are everywhere in a few years? Thats what its coming to...shoot 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 year old deer or let them walk. I'm not a "its brown its down " guy, but I also don't get up at 3 am to let 99% of the deer walk by everyday. Last time I checked, hunting does involve a little killing once in a while.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I AM IMPRESSED! My hat is off to all of yougentlemen..AND ladies if there were any that posted to this thread, and not once did I see any feathers flying. In the past this subject or the general genre of it has always sparked somewhat heated debates.
Just the fact that this time everyone stated their own opinions without anyone else bashing them has shown that we've all started to respect how others hunt. I'm not trying to ramble (though it happens a lot when talking about hunting), but there were several excellent points made in this thread, and it's evident by how many times people quoted each other. Orion skirted the edges on the previous page about what the our group likes to call PERSONAL DEER MANAGEMENT (PDM) as opposed to the inherit rules that come with some ofthe QDM thoughts.
YES; I hunt for larger bucks, but if I see a buck I like the LOOKS of based on rack shape or CHARACTER; I will NOT hesitate to kill him. Our group is also happy to keep our doe population in check by taking enough to keep the ratio in check to the bucks. We do have large bucks on the properties we hunt, but there are a lot more smaller bucks on the properties that we choose to let go.
One thing that ALWAYS has to be remembered when getting into this type of discussion is that ALL of us as humans have something called FREE WILL and we will make up our own minds regardless of what other people say or do.
To get back to the original question.....I say NO....every one of us has the intelligence to make up our own minds about how and for what we want to hunt. I say TO EACH THEIR OWN and have a HOOOOOHAAAA of a time doing it! Good luck to all this year and STAY SAFE!

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I actually believe that the craze for QDM ( which I have always called QAM- quality antler management) is the problem. I feel about it like I feel about baseball's modern era- their should be an asteric by it. In my, and I know it is only my, opinion whenever you manage deer, they become livestock. The true TROPHIES from years gone buy were shot because of hard hunting- not just hard work in management. I just don't feel that a 125 scored buck from a managed farm can compared to a 125 from public land or land where dear were not inticed to remain or come to. Now, if what you want is to manage your own land- more power to you and I know you get great satisfaction from it- but I just do not fee, in my on humble opinion, that it is the same as hunting for a trophy. I have never shot a buck- came close to a monster on a public land in MO, but I still feel every doe I arrowed- especially the small one I stalked-:D:D:D(great hunt!!!!!!!!!!!!) was a trophy to me!

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Thats why i said ifYOU eat it. buttonbuckmaster

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Everyone I know that hunts and holds out for a big buck shoots a doe for meat. I would guess that most of the big buck hunters on this site do the same. Familys going hungry because they are holding out for a big buck... give me a break! I don't think starving familys are worried to much about big antlers.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Very interesting topic. I have mixed feelings on it, but i want to start off saying that i feel like no matter what our own opinions are on the subject, we are all missing out on the fact of the matter at hand- Enjoying time spend in the woods with family and friends. Do i want to shoot the biggest bruiser out there, obviously. Am i going to let it ruin my season if i dont,absolutely not. To me, hunting is about being in the great outdoors and seeing things that my friends and family only see on the discovery channel. I get as much enjoyment watching a doe come down the trail and arrowing her as i do watching a spike frolick in the field as i do getting all nervous watching the big boy hoping that he comes down the right trail. I cant stand how a person will put others down when they post a picture of a "smaller" buck but the person in the picture has a smile from ear to ear. Trust me on this, i love shooting big deer, my own personal preferance is to pass on anything younger than 3 1/2 but again, that is my own preferance. My one hunting buddy isnt as picky, he will pass year old deer, but will shoot small 2 and a halfs, deer i would pass on, and i love seeing the smile on his face and helping him drag it out of the woods, to me, this is what hunting is all about. I have scouted a number of "shooter" bucks to me this year and i pray i get a chance at them this fall, but to tell you the truth, i have something that is driving me even more. My friend who i have been best friends for the last 25 years with got into hunting 2 years ago, hehasnt hunted all that many times and he has never even seen a deer while on stand. He cant comprehend the excitement i have when i come home from the woods. Well this fall i already have devoted one of my top 3 stands just to him. He can hunt it anytime he wants. I am just counting down the days when we are on stand that opening morning, ill be in the tree with him filming him, and the first does start coming in. I cant wait to see him start shaking and draw and let the arrow go. This to me is more important than the score of any buck and will certainly be the highlight of me season. Like i said before, i want to shoot the bigget buck out there, but that being said, i think its sad how hunting is losing this feeling and how people are starting to judge their seasons only by their deers score.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

There's a real solution, don't fall into the trap. I've been saying for years this QDM crap and all the propoganda that goes with it are ruining hunting. It's suppose to be fun. When a kid shoots a little 4 pointer he's suppose to be proud and not feel he has to apologize to be politically correct. OH, and we never worried about PC in hunting when it was FUN. Yes, some of us and all of the TV celebrities in their quest to be "THE EXPERT" are spawning this, it has to be big or else. And the poor guy who doesn't have the herd and land they do feels like it's no fun, he'll never succeed. It's suppose to be fun. Many of these so call EXPERTS didn't hunt 35 years ago when simply getting a shot opportunityor two in a year was an accomplishment. Today they thump their chest and scream, look at me, I let 28 bucks walk by this AM. Boy I'm a great hunter. And the kid with the 4 point hangs his head. Heck, it doesn't have to be a kid, it can be the guy from the mill that gets Saturdays only to hunt for a couple weeks. So he hunts 2 days a year and the QDM crazies want to tell him it's unethical and low class to shoot the 4 point. Blast the little sucker and have fun. It's not about bones, it's about tenderloins. And don't you dare tell me the guy that get's to hunt two days a year can shoot a doe for tenderloins. He too wants a buck, it doesn't have to be THE BUCK. There's only one guy that's going to shoot the BIGGEST. It's suppose to be fun, not competition. I could go on for hours but I instead choose to move on to another thread. I've shot this basket rack case enough. I've never put a tape or allowed a tape to go on one of my deer. They're never classified as MATURE or MANAGEMENT deer. They're fun deer and I shoot when I have a fancy to. They're not refered to in terms of inches or POPE and YOUNG score. They're all nice bucks, or big bucks, or bodacious rascals. IT's suppose to be fun. We have bag limits like crazy now. You want to shoot a couple basket racks, knock yourself out buddy. It's suppose to be fun. I'll slap you on the back, laugh and gafaw with ya, gut him and help you drag the thing out. You start telling me you got to score him first, well hell, I have to go to the car and meditate. See ya back in town. It's suppose to be fun. Most things done for the "Health of the herd" are camouflage for "Growing big hons for me so I can thump my chest and make the kid with the 4 point hang his head and apologize. That just isn't fun to me. I had a lot of fun hunting BEFORE there was a Pope and Young. I didn't need them to have a nice day in the woods.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

njbuck22:

Well said. Thanks for introducing your friend to "the feeling". He'll never forget it (nor will you). I had that time with my son, last year. Awesome!

I guess what some are trying to say is......when people (read - other hunters) hear their peers talk about "yeah I pass on anything under 140" ".....the "class" of the buck is "seemingly" stated for a reason......otherwise it wouldn't be mentioned. Whether intended or not.....it's demeaning to other hunters. Its kinda like showing how high on the wall you can pixx. (just MY opinion) It would serve the same purpose to simply say...."I'm holding out for a good buck, this season".

Hey...I'm just a good ol boy from NC, though. What do I know????

jeff

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

clear as mud. As long as someone eats it, I don't see the big fuss.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Have fun Gobbler.[8D][8D] You can hunt in my camp anytime just as long as you shoot what makes you happy.:D I'll never do anything but congratulate you and help you drag. I may razz you about putting it in you game pouch to carry out, but I'll still be happy for you. How can you pass something and then say you let it go. The thing got away on ya.[8D];);) Brings to mind something about counting chickens.[&:] I've actually hunted a time or two with people that got jealous because I shot something. Dang folks, it's suppose to be fun, not make you feel bad.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

That's a good one.....;)

BTW....I enjoy your posts. Good luck to you, this season.

Jeff

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

There is nothing wrong with the so called trophey hunter. I go out every year after a trophy. I didn't always do this, especially when I was younger. I've just realized good deer hunting management. I get two tags a year. A doe tag and a tag for anything. I shoot my doe right away and go after the big boy the rest of the year. Then the last two weekes I will shoot a doe again ifI don't get a trophy. What could possibly be wrong with that. I am puting food on the table. By passing little bucks up all year I am giving them a chance to grow size. I am also spending qaulity time in the stand learning every time I am out,as well asenjoying nature to the fullest.

How could someone possibly tell me that that is the wrong way to hunt. Im not hurting anyone. I don't care if some guy comes out to the area I hunt and shoots a 6 point, "good for him". I just know what Imdoingis helping me better my chance aswell as others chances to see morebucks and bigger ones.Oh....and just because Ihunt this way doesn'tmean somekid hangs his headbecuase he shot a 6pointer. We all hunted asyoung menand you take whatever you can get. Although, at some point you mature into a different hunter and the challengechanges.In my opinion.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

No matter how big a buck I shoot in the future this will always be the greatest deer I have ever seen taken.
David, as you have said it's all about the fun and it will never be any more fun than seeing my daughter take not only her first deer but the first deer for either of us

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I'm not against Trophy hunters either. I just think it's self serving for those that want to make the guy who chooses to shoot the first nice buck he sees feel like he's done something wrong. Even I have some restrictions on myself. We have liberal bag limits that I'd never desire to fill. But, I'll pass up(let them get away) a lot of does the first time or two in a stand. Then I may whack a doe and move on. I try to make sure every buck I shoot is larger than the last one I shot that year. If however it's been a while and I decide I need some blood on the arrow I'll take what's available. If I hunt on your place and you tell me I can only shoot this size deer I'll obey. My minimums shift with where and when I'm hunting. If I go to Ohio a lot of deer that would die in Maryland are going to get away.[8D]

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I go about what I do quietly,I don't impose my views on others but I do have opinions.If a young person or a new hunter or even a seasoned veteran is excited and thrilled with their kill than I am thrilled with them and for them! If as Ryan has said they kill any buck just to kill a buck because they perceive it as a reflection of their manliness than I don't agree with that.This is just my opinion.
For some of you that live in area's of the country where you "at least have the chance to see a 41/2 year old deer" it is a different set of circumstances.
Where I live you will go your lifetime as a very dedicated hunter and very likely never see a 120 inch deer (I only use this to give people perspective)Yes I want to see bigger deer,I want to be challenged by the opportunity to pursue them.
You can't kill what isn't there.I am not arguing with anyone,or disagreeing with any one specifically I am just expressing my opinion.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

"What ever floats your boat..."

Seriously, hunting is a contest between man and beast, no more, no less... To the victor go the spoils and to the victor alone. If a person is happy with meat on the table, so be it. Let'em hunt, and leave 'em alone.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Shoot what's leagal. Hold out for the big bucks if you want. Take some does for the meat and let the boys grow up. Hey if you mount your buck then you are looking for a trophy. It doesn't make sense to kill a smaller buck and mount it? If the season is ending and you haven't taken a deer yet then have at it. I'll probably hold out for a big buck until the rut,if I have a freezer full of does maybe I won't take a buck. (OH wait I'm in the contest ,I guess I'll have to get some horns afterall) See what I mean, it's all relative. Practice hard, aim true and do what you will as long as it's legal,bowhunting whitetails is hard enough without all the added angst.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I say it is up to the individual hunter and where they hunt and how much time is put into it. I live in St. Louis Co.,MO. The archeryseason starts Sept. 15 and goes thru Jan. 15. We have a lot of time snd I spend many days in a stand. We have lots of deer and can harvest an unlimited amount of does. So I shoot plenty of them for practice and wait for bigger bucks. If I shoot a buck I mount, that is my guage. I also hunt a lot in IL, an hour from home. It is big buck territory so I hold out but dont kill one every year either. They are'nt around every tree, like some people think.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

absolutely, 100% YES the obesession and greed to shoot big antlers has destroyed what hunting is

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

i took a nice trophey deer years a go ,worse eatting deer i ever had
now i dont look forward to shooting a big old buck give me that little
one .leave the big ones for breading

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

The obsession with shooting big bucks is, in a way, corrupting our sport. So many new hunters buy a bag of minerals with a monster buck on the front and think that that buck will apper out of thin air. When it dosnt happpen the hunter quits. The false advertising and misleading advertisements IS corrupting our sport. Now qdm is a completely different game. QDM has done nothing but help our deer herds and in return helped our deer hunting. The idea of killing only mature bucks is nothing but good. This deer may only have a 6 point rack, but quess what, you probably just outsmarted one of the smartest wild animals on eart if you kill him. To me taking a mediocre mature deer is much better than killing a P&Y 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 year old buck. To me The obession of thinking you must kill a book buck is corrupting, i am and always will be involved and behind the QDMA. Yes a by product of QDM is bigger bucks usually. QDM is about HERD management and Herd health. Just my .02 cents

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Heck, if you want to grow a great herd you can put up a fence and really go at it. Some people do it with Angus.

It's been all down hill since feeders, fences, food plots with towers, TV celebs on un natural grounds, and buzz words such as herd management, QDM, Management bucks etc etc. It just makes me

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Davidmil, your an idiot. Thats the dumbest comment i have ever heard. So you dont care about your heard health thats fine with me i understand, but dont bash my ideas just because your lazy. It takes work and i will put the work into it. Your just like alot of the neighbors around here. "I shoot the little bucks cause i dont ever see a trophy book buck", i wonder why. Maybe because your shooting the bucks that could become 130 inch bucks. Its common sense. As for the high fence, i like to hunt fair chase, and hunt deer that are harder to kill. I am not one to hunt in a high fence area just so i can kill a book deer. That might be your thing but not mine. Happy Hunting

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I'm not choosing sides, here.....but I see David's point. For instance......When I was growing up (rural NC)....I can count on both hands the number of deer I saw.....and I NEVER saw a wild turkey until I was in college. Deer were hard to find, back then.

There's been SO MANY leaps and bounds int the hunting "industry"....and many leaps and bounds in research that have made hunting easier in MY opinion. One part of the "research" side is the bag limits/QDM (which I ALSO believe is 'QAM')/leases w/restrictions/etc... . Now the sheer deer numbers are up in our state....which depending on who you ask....is a good/bad thing (I grew up farming). With the advent of the management/lease popularity/QDM (QAM).....it's (again...in MY opinion) MUCH easier to find the P&Y/B&C bucks. I'll go so far as to say that they don't mean what they used to (Bash if you must...but I'm entitled to my opinion). I'm betting (and I could be wrong....and will admit it if I'm shown otherwise) that 20 years agoa P&Y buck couldn't be guaranteed to a client in a particular camp......much less a particular HUNT! To me.....it seems like we're artificially growing these giants.....and it somewhat diminishes the deer that people that don't have access to these monstersharvest. It's that simple.

That......and to hear peopleconstantly talk about"Passing" on 130 and 140 class deer.....is demeaning.Just the language, though.....not the fact. The "class" of a deer one chooses to"Pass" on is irrelevant. Why not just say you're holding out for "your" deer? Or....I have my own personal criteria? If we diminish hunting down tosciences and seemingly "genetically enhanced" deer......for the sake of seeing who can pixx the highest on the wall......I won't even discuss hunting with anyone, anyomore.

I hold NO ill will for those who "trophy" hunt. More power to you! I do, too! I'm hunting for my trophy.....and if I had access to the deer soem of you do.....then I'd SURELY be holding out for the monsters, myself.

BUT.....I will NEVER talk down to anyone that shoots ANY animal that they take by legal means.......whatever size.....whatever year-old.....whatever sex. It ain't right.

Jeff

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

This type of attitude and opinions is the result of the desperate need to shoot a BIG BUCK IMO.

This guy is calling someone an idiot b/c he chooses not to hunt they way a QDMer does?

Maybe killing a 130 inch deer is not tops on the priority scale for everyone.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I may be an idiot, but I do all right. This is just the tip of the ice berg, or would that be tenderloins I've provided. OH, and here's one of your replies from a recent thread. Which way is it?[8D] I couldn't begin to tell you what any of them scores either. I do know the 10 point has a 21 1/2 inch spread. The rest are 18-19.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

No,it corrupts all hunting.It is rediculous.Bashing huters for what they kill,or saying that one person is better than the other b/c of how big a deer he/she takes.It has alot to do with location.I like a big buck as much as the next guy,but there's more to it than that.If you have to ask what else there is then you are one of the guilty one's.;)

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

davidmil, those are some nice bucks. Congrats

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

My answer to this question is no, it does not corrupt hunting. People trying to shoot big bucks by illegal and unethical means does corrupt it. There are many people that consistantly take trophy bucks that know one has ever heard of. They don't brag about it or try to make people think that their way of hunting is the only way to hunt. How or what you hunt is your own personal decision. Nobody has the right to tell you differently. As long as you're within the law, it's your choice as to what makes you happy. I personally like to hunt for trophy bucks and does. I let the little ones go. BTW, I've taken 37 bucks and know what every one of them scores, their weight and age. This goes for the does age and weight also. I'm in to this type of thing and make no apologies for it.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

HUntin Gus, i dont need to shoot a big buck or even a buck at all to think im a good hunter. I bashed him because he bashed me. Dont tell me to build a high fence because they do it with angus all the time. Im tired of some people telling me off and i just take it. If you bash me i bash you. You do not know me so IMO you have no right to tell me that i think i have to kill a buck. DavidMIl, dont dish it out if you cant take it. I also like how you think you have to take a picture to prove something, i dont care if you shoot big bucks or small bucks, your decision, your opinion. But dont tell me my opinion is wrong and to go build a high fence

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

Heh heh hee..... Who said I couldn't take it Grasshopper?:D:D I love this stuff.[8D]

P.S. That should be "you're an idiot".[8D]

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I know this is off subject but I need to say this.

Bowhunter4life, there is no reason for name calling. I know Davidmil is a big boy and doesn't need my help here, but you should try to get to know people through their posts before you spout off like that. David and I don't always see eye to eye on subjects but there is no personal insults thrown.He wasn't speaking directly to you about the high fences and cattle refrence just that in general.

I don't know how old you are but you come across as a younger person. I don't know how long you have lurked here but you only signed up two months ago. Do a littleresearch about the person you are about to insult before you do and you may find out something about them. In this case it's someone who has served this great country and put his life on the line so you have the "right" to insult him.

RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
 

I don't think it is. I think that some people just need to remember that first, what's big around one area might be small in another and second, not everyone can aford to go on hunts out of theri area where they can get big bucks.