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What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
05-01-2006, 05:09 PM
#31
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mont County, Pa
Posts: 7,368
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
I also shoot just three arrows in a group, with broadheads and they will be in a3" circle at 25 yrds. The middle of the three is the average. I don'tpractice with field points because I don't hunt with them and like The Lone Wolf said the best practice is from an elevated stand. I wish I could practice like that but don't have that option. I live in tight quarters.
05-02-2006, 01:46 PM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 4,679
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
I really feel that measuring a shooters abilities by how large a single 3 or 5 shotgroup is will produce very inaccurate measurements of accuracy. Measuring how many arrows out of say 30, 45, or 60 back to back arrows total that can be put into a given target size is a much better means of measuring accuracy IMHO.
Lots of guys claim to be able to put all their arrows in a 2" group at 30 yards......if you could do that 30, 45, or 60 times in a row that would be world class shooting. A vegas 10 ring is approx 1.5" (1.58" or 4cmto be exact) and to be competitive on the international level in a vegas event, you only have to be able to put 30 in a row in that circle every time.....and that is only @ 20 yards.
With that said, I can hit the black dot on a Morrell Outdoor Range target probably 25 out of 30 times at 30 yards when the equipment is dialed in.
Lots of guys claim to be able to put all their arrows in a 2" group at 30 yards......if you could do that 30, 45, or 60 times in a row that would be world class shooting. A vegas 10 ring is approx 1.5" (1.58" or 4cmto be exact) and to be competitive on the international level in a vegas event, you only have to be able to put 30 in a row in that circle every time.....and that is only @ 20 yards.
With that said, I can hit the black dot on a Morrell Outdoor Range target probably 25 out of 30 times at 30 yards when the equipment is dialed in.
05-02-2006, 02:02 PM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
I'm with Lone Wolf on this one. The best measure ofa hunter's ability to shoot effectively at wild game would be with one, single, simulated shot.
We're talking about a singleshot,ice cold, from an elevatedstand in winter gear,with your heart in your throat and a hunting bow w/broadhead. Oh, and you don't have much time to waste, either. One shot, 30 yards at some angle maybe with a fewbranches in the way at a target that moves laterally without warning. Under such circumstances, I feel that I can hit an 8" circle consistently, provided that the target doesn't move too much between the time I cut the arrow loose, and it reaches its mark. I don't think I'm capable of being much more accurate than that due to the added difficulty of the intangibles.
Sure, it's a pain to practice like this, but when that rutting buck comes through, you're not standing there in khaki shorts in 72 degree weatherwith a target bow in an open field with 2 minutes to shoot and your target perfectly ranged at 30 yards to the inch.
Anybody can shoot 50 times at ground-level, with no wind,in bermuda shorts at a plastic target, and put a nice group together. This is a whole different ball of wax.
________________________
Now, if this discussion is only related to shooting inanimate objects or targets, I agree with Rick James - and I'd also agree that my group size would shrink considerably. Since it's in the hunting forum, I'm presuming that it relates to hunting, not shooting paper or plastictargets.
We're talking about a singleshot,ice cold, from an elevatedstand in winter gear,with your heart in your throat and a hunting bow w/broadhead. Oh, and you don't have much time to waste, either. One shot, 30 yards at some angle maybe with a fewbranches in the way at a target that moves laterally without warning. Under such circumstances, I feel that I can hit an 8" circle consistently, provided that the target doesn't move too much between the time I cut the arrow loose, and it reaches its mark. I don't think I'm capable of being much more accurate than that due to the added difficulty of the intangibles.
Sure, it's a pain to practice like this, but when that rutting buck comes through, you're not standing there in khaki shorts in 72 degree weatherwith a target bow in an open field with 2 minutes to shoot and your target perfectly ranged at 30 yards to the inch.
Anybody can shoot 50 times at ground-level, with no wind,in bermuda shorts at a plastic target, and put a nice group together. This is a whole different ball of wax.
________________________
Now, if this discussion is only related to shooting inanimate objects or targets, I agree with Rick James - and I'd also agree that my group size would shrink considerably. Since it's in the hunting forum, I'm presuming that it relates to hunting, not shooting paper or plastictargets.
05-02-2006, 06:45 PM
#35
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southeast Central Illinois USA
Posts: 6,969
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
Accuracy is subjective. We should all strive to shoot the best we can and if our groups shrink due to practice and using a well tuned bow then I feel we are all doing our part individually, plus we will enjoy shooting and bowhunting more. As a side note, I've known some excellent archers who can touch their arrows at long distances on a field range and shoot Xs all day long on an indoor range, but still miss game while hunting due to misjudging yardage or flat out getting the shakes. Its a much different ball game shooting at targets than a deer.
05-02-2006, 07:23 PM
#36
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blossvale, New York
Posts: 21,199
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
I have to agree with Rick James. I count every arrow I shoot in a day. One that's bad is not good. I would say I can shoot with most people. An occasional flyer, not in the expected pattern is reason to panic. Two inches, 3 inches.. they're all killers. That's what I aim for. All killers. Along with practice and confidence, if my aim and form are true I expect to kill every deer I shoot at. I've done it most of the time about 80 times and never once did I measure an arrow group. Practice to be true.
05-03-2006, 07:06 AM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,435
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
From the stats, I suspect a touch of exageration going on here. 5 for 5 in a 2" circle at 30 yards indicates to me someone who would breeze a score of 300. (thatson a 3" 5 ring at 20 yards, 60 arrows) They'd be hammering the x spot. This poll says 21%, or more than 1 in 5 archers do that. Also, the 46% that say 5 for 5 in a 4" circle at 30 yards if you scale that down to 20 yards would be holding 2.67" groups and would also be shooting 300's. So in other words this poll is telling me that 68% of the archers shoot 300's with no problem.Well,if it's true, then this is one awsome group of archers here. I've been around quite a while and I've seen a lot of guys shoot.I'd guess maybe 5% consitently shoot 300. I'd say less than 10% have done it even once. Of course that's MHO.
05-03-2006, 07:11 AM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
Hey Dave, there are so many good shooters here, but I wonder what they'd do if they were 'challenged' with awkward situations?
Dave can tell you that we try tochallenge customers with different shooting scenarios. Try shooting your 5to 10arrow groups as rapidly as possible. See if you can get down to less than 5 seconds per shot doing a10arrow group (total time allotment of 50 seconds)and still maintain a good group. Try hitting a 1" object suspended on a string in front of a backstop - while it's moving . Shootfrom awkward positions such as sitting andshooting over your shoulder or leaning heavily to a point where your one foot has only a toe touching. Try shooting at a round butt target that is rolling down a hill. This is one that we do occassionally away from the shop. It's a real challenge that's a lot offun.
These are some of the challenges that we havegiven to customers to enhance their confidence. Then comes the ultimate challenge. Learn to shoot your bow with the opposite hand. This will not only open up more shooting opportunities in the treestand, but will actually make you a better shooter overall.
Smaller group size at a standing target, at a given range, during good shooting conditions will build your confidence; but, challenging yourself with adverse situations with give you much greater confidence and prepare you for the real world in the woods.
Sylvan:
There you go again, being realistic and analytical.
Dave can tell you that we try tochallenge customers with different shooting scenarios. Try shooting your 5to 10arrow groups as rapidly as possible. See if you can get down to less than 5 seconds per shot doing a10arrow group (total time allotment of 50 seconds)and still maintain a good group. Try hitting a 1" object suspended on a string in front of a backstop - while it's moving . Shootfrom awkward positions such as sitting andshooting over your shoulder or leaning heavily to a point where your one foot has only a toe touching. Try shooting at a round butt target that is rolling down a hill. This is one that we do occassionally away from the shop. It's a real challenge that's a lot offun.
These are some of the challenges that we havegiven to customers to enhance their confidence. Then comes the ultimate challenge. Learn to shoot your bow with the opposite hand. This will not only open up more shooting opportunities in the treestand, but will actually make you a better shooter overall.
Smaller group size at a standing target, at a given range, during good shooting conditions will build your confidence; but, challenging yourself with adverse situations with give you much greater confidence and prepare you for the real world in the woods.
Sylvan:
There you go again, being realistic and analytical.
05-03-2006, 07:26 AM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,435
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
Sorry Len....
BTW great post! Shooting at a deer is a much different and much more difficult proposition than target shooting. "Chalenging yourself with adverse situations" is great advice.
BTW great post! Shooting at a deer is a much different and much more difficult proposition than target shooting. "Chalenging yourself with adverse situations" is great advice.
05-03-2006, 07:35 AM
#40
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 543
RE: What are your groups like at 30 yards? Be Honest!
Len in Maryland that is great advice. My husband and I always challenge one another to make difficult shots. It makes it so that when we are out hunting or at 3D shoots we are confident that we can make the shot. It becomes second nature.
My husband and I always challenge one another to make difficult shots. It makes it so that when we are out hunting or at 3D shoots we are confident that we can make the shot. It becomes second nature.