It seems to me that I have heard a theme of bigger pure lead conicals. Most of the so called "failures" I have been hearing of seem to be at higher powder charges (150 grains or close to it).

Could it be that big, soft lead does better at lower velocities? One example we all know from high powered rifles is game shot up close with a soft lead bullet. It just disentigrates when it hits, sometimes not giving good penetration, while if the same bullet is shot at 250 yards and hits with lower velocity, it performs well. Thus the Nosler partition bullets and later clones. The soft lead core expands better at longer ranges, and the solid core remains for good penetration at close ranges.

Seems to me that solid lead conicals perform better, have better penetration, and don't fragment as bad at moderate velocities. At 150 grains of powder, wouldn't be MORE likely to fragment on impact and increase the failure rate?

Now I am not talking about sabots that are built more like premium rifle bullets and have controlled expansion. Just big soft lead conicals.

Someone with more knowledge of physics should jump in, but it makes sense to me.

I know I feel comfortable using 90 grains of 777 on elk this fall.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

I really don't think that a big 350 or 400 grain slug fired from a 50 caliber ML would come close to reching the velocity required to make it blow up. Your talking about 1500 to 1800 fps at the very max from a bullet like that and probably 90% being closer to 1600 fps.

When you put 150 grains of BP or 777 or what ever in the gun you mostly get a bigger kick because of the added weight of the powder, and a lot of flash and smoke from the powder burning outside the barrel. About half+- of BP is burned out side the barrel and that percentage increases as you increase the ammount of powder you use in the gun.

Most of the complaints I here are that the bullet didn't expand much if at all. They gripe about a bullet passing all the way through an animals lungs, exiting and killing it. I can't figure it out. A dead animal and a 1/2 inch hole all the way through its lungs???? Things that make you go hmmmmm.

Interesting...never heard of a 100% pure lead conical fragmenting at any muzzleloader velocity...be about like saying that 100% pure lead round balls would fragment.

100% lead conicals and balls will flatten, expand, collapse, deform, etc, etc, but I've never heard about or seen any that had fragmented at puny little muzzleloader velocities...I personally drive 100% lead TC Maxi-HUnters around 1700 fps, and lead balls over 2000 fps, they're devastating on deer, and if still in the deer to be recovered, they've always been intact for me

Pushing a lead conical over about 1450 fps is going to provide a nice treat for your barrel. LEADING - big time leading. The physics of what might happen downrange won't matter much when you are trying to get the lead out.

I shoot mostly conicals of 400 grains or more and rarely go past 90 grains of Pyrodex or 80 or T7. There is a lot more to be lost than gained by pushing them harder. Likely to suffer would be accuracy, your shoulder, condition of the rifle, and your pocketbook - all for next to nothing positive in return. 80 grains of powder behind a large pure lead conical will hit like Thor's hammer and expand nicely at muzzleloader ranges. I've a .451 home cast that has mushroomed to a bit over .7 here beside me. That bullet was removed from a buck taken at ~110 yards distance.