Gm54-120

Nope, not in any of my Knights. Ive had Elites as early as 3 digit and 4 digit serial numbers. An Extreme and 2 "target" triggers, one came in my GMB54-120. Another cheaper one in my DISC original 45.

All were silver in color. Maybe its was some kind of SG special order batch. They sold a 45cal Wolverine with a light contour barrel i never saw anywhere else too.

d.winsor

I'd hate to think how old the knight mountaineer was that I bought. It was definitely new in the box, "I think"

Gm54-120

Mountaineers were not released until PI took over as the new owners. The prototype was called the Knight Ultimate Slam and none were ever sold as far as i know. So that would mean none were made prior to about 2011 except for a few prototypes by the older Knight.

1874sharpsshooter

in the last 3 threads you posted about Knight, CVA, and Traditions warranty. All the guns had to be sent back, and in the post on group size TC is added to the equation..

you make the below statement

quote:
over the years T/C replaced 3 barrels on the renegade because the group opened up to 4" @ 100. Getting the barrels replaced was like pulling teeth, but T/C came thru

end of quote

Do you send every muzzleloader back for replacement. Sure looks like you are a gun sellers worst nightmare.

hunters_life

I've had my Renegade for a pretty good number of years and you are now stepping into my world of sidelocks. I also know several people with Renegades in both .50 and .45 and neither they nor I have ever had a barrel issue. And we all have thousands of rounds through them. I can still keep PRB's under 2 inches at 100 yards with mine. Under an inch with XTP's, the only sabot the thing will shoot worth a damn, is still easily attainable. I doubt seriously you had a barrel issue but an operator issue in not knowing how to clean properly or more than likely not knowing how to shoot the thing properly. The Renegade is one of TC's best shooting rifles of all their productions. I am starting to suspect all your posts to be some sort of brand bashing attempts.

d.winsor

I also did a LOT of shooting with my renegade, it was the only gun I had at the time, I couldn't rotate guns on the range. Barrels going bad on the T/C renegade in my opinion, according to what a knight representative said, was a benefit of using bore butter, and yes it appears you are probably correct, I am sorry about my luck too. But that does not negate a warranty. The fact that T/C had the chance to inspect my barrels and then decide to replace them should tell you a lot. I indulged you so lets get back to the content of this thread.

d.winsor

You didn't say if you used Bore Butter, Not according to T/C as they ultimately agreed with me, 3 separate times. After I QUIT using bore butter my problems with my renegade barrel ceased, T/C didn't have to replace any more barrels. As stated to this day I still have the renegade and it will still shoot 1" groups @ 100 yards. Seems like the knight representative was right, I quit using bore butter. If he wasn't T/C was overly generous with their warranty. Maybe I should have started a thread for T/C Warranty, Quality & Customer service, for before S&W took them over. But I cannot slam S&W as I have had no issues with any of their guns since. No reason the contact them.
you don't even know my cleaning procedure, that is not even an issue of this thread. How can you critique my cleaning procedure. Also it is no great secret on how to shoot a muzzleloader, push the bullet down firmly on the powder, put a cap on the barrel, point, aim and shoot. How could that in itself damage a muzzleloader barrel. I STILL say it was the T/C Bore butter. I did make my own T/C Maxie bullets, and sent some with my shot out gun barrel back to T/C. When they sent me a new barrel back, they sent me a note with the gun saying they had never seen such quality in a cast Maxie bullet. After casting, I weigh every bullet, I threw out the high and low side of the run and kept all other bullets. I also culled them on looks. I doubt very seriously it had anything to do with my shooting. But I appreciate the input
Also, have you heard me slam CVA, Traditions or T/C? With my recommendations for their Warranty, Quality and Customer Service over the years, I have probably sold a lot of guns for them. I'll bet they have me insured because it would be a loss to them if something happened to me! ! ! Have A Happy New Year. I allowed you to pull me off subject, lets get back to this thread.

hunters_life

Oh there is so much more to shooting a traditional type muzzleloader than just point and shoot. Especially with a DB trigger setup such as on a Renegade. Hand position, stock position, form, breathing, follow through, and much more. I will agree that Bore Butter is very bad for barrels when people just use hot soapy water to clean. BB has ingredients in it that will cause buildup that doesn't come out with just soap and water. A good water based solvent needs to be used when using BB. I currently use my own little concoction for lube when using my Maxi's and PRB's and I also run around 20-30 strokes of JB bore paste every 200 or so rounds.
And yes sir, cleaning procedures can and will affect accuracy as easily as improperly putting it back together. Inconsistent pressures on the wedge key when putting the stock and barrel back together can throw the accuracy to hell. Blown out nipple, same thing.

d.winsor

I am not really wanting to get off the subject of this thread, but I will respond again. As the renegade was my first gun I did everything the manufacture recommended, right down to the cleaning procedure. I can appreciate your cleaning procedure, and wish I had some of your concoction back then. I wish I had someone to recommend it to me when I was shooting my renegade a lot and using bore butter, maybe it would have saved me a lot of grief. Again a shooting technique, even though bad and will definitely effect the group size, it will never damage a barrel. As long as loading procedures recommended by the manufacture are followed.
Just for your information, I recently read an article that said if you soaked a barrel fouled by bore butter for 2 or 3 days in soap and water, then use a brass brush, the bore butter would come out in chunks. I don't know if it is true or not, but my daughter has a .45 cal Cherokee that the same thing happened to, this was after T/C quit handling traditional guns. T/C offered to refund the money paid for the Cherokee. My daughter didn't want to do this, I am thinking about trying the procedure on it. Just have to be careful I don't loose a brush in the barrel. Also, I had a bad nipple Flash Hole once, it really effected accuracy but didn't damage the barrel, I installed a new one and went right back to shooting good groups. Have A Happy New Year.

GoexBlackhorn

A bore brushed, soapy water bucket-bath should remove all traces of bore butter. Doing the same bathing procedure with a ramrod jag, instead of a bore brush, will not be as effective in removal.

Best remedy?..... ditch the Bore Butter and clean/oil your muzzleloaders like you would your centerfire rifles. Run two patches of 90% alcohol to rid the bore of oils, before shooting it again at the range.

If hunting up-north, I use one of two products that have a small amount of bore preservative in it to swab.
That way the gun will never show signs of rust, shooting it 1-2 a day for an entire week of hunting. Always follow the wet swab with both sides of two dry patches.Breechplug should be open when swabbing, with no spent 209 primer in the breechplug face.

1) Birchwood Casey 2 In 1 Bore Scrubber/Cleaner
2) Butch's Blackpowder Bore Shine.