I know this is a stupid question of you Dave,... but have you ever tried these cards. The way they are built they really a tough card board. You can start them in the bore with your thumb push it down with the ram rod a couple of inches then start the conical it will pick up the wad and the wad is tight enough to wipe the lands and grooves for you on the way down. Doc White use to make a bullet that cleaned on the way down also. But they card board works well 'almost' zero chance of it turning sideways or anything that might screw up loading.

I'll let you all know what i think of them this weekend. i have some 777 loose i want to try in the Wolverine.i have been using pyrodex and it is a good powder, it's just so darn dirty and i am swabbing between shots with it anyway. so why not use 777.i am waiting patiently to see the reviews on the new Black MZ, as this may be just the ticket for my conical shooting in the wolverine and possibly the Triumph also.a happy medium so to speak! Ray

My biggest worry about Black MZ - is that it is BM3 revisited which means it is a surgar powder with the rest of the APPs. All though if it has a decent shelf life without clumping - it could be a very good powder.

But yet as Scott said, I think it was Scott, Alliant may have put some fresh ideas into it.

I know you do not want to hear this but that group of shooters in PA that tested it, was not impressed as they were not with the new Super Duper powder either.

Im hoping they added a coating to make it less hygroscopic and its possible that coating makes it lighter too. Since recoil is partially calculated by powder WEIGHT not volume it would be a small advantage.

For all we know though, they just bought the "rights" and made their own. Weighing a volume charge should give us an idea of what happened. Im looking forward to testing
it in the 45s.

BTW i prefer either Circle Fly Nitro cards or dry felt. If i want lube i will add it. I would prefer to only add it to the conical side anyway sometimes. Veggie wads aren't too bad either and they are cheap.

I have read both good and bad on BM3. one report stated first batch was horrible and the second batch trumped 777, then it vanished from the market.i am not aware of any review from PA either?.of course i am skeptical about any new powder. but i can tell you i just can't see Alliant ruining there good name with a crap powder like APP/Shockey super duper or some of the others.. we shall see and only time will tell.Ray

GM, if i remember correctly i think i read they indeed added a coating to it.and for the life of me i can't find any reviews from anyone or group from PA on the internet and i have been researching it. Ray

Thats why i mentioned it...but i might be imagining things.

You are correct too. Alliant powders are usually excellent.