I'll let you all know what i think of them this weekend. i have some 777 loose i want to try in the Wolverine.i have been using pyrodex and it is a good powder, it's just so darn dirty and i am swabbing between shots with it anyway. so why not use 777.i am waiting patiently to see the reviews on the new Black MZ, as this may be just the ticket for my conical shooting in the wolverine and possibly the Triumph also.a happy medium so to speak! Ray