Hornady 4500 bullets
08-08-2011 | 10:30 AM
#12
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,918
Likes: 1
From: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
That would be a terrible hunting bullet. Slow moving large caliber hunting bullets are made of soft lead or with thin jackets and lead tips/hollow points for a reason.
08-08-2011 | 12:30 PM
#13
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
I have never tried that bullet. I have shot some .458 all lead 423 Grain bullets in an orange Knight sabot out of different rifles. I cast the bullet from a Lee mold. Its supposed to be a 405 grain Remington Flat point bullet. That bullet cause a lot of trees to come down, when I was first building and cutting out my shooting range.
08-09-2011 | 04:45 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: Rapid City, South Dakota
Would a 300 grain .458 TMJ with a flat metplate be useful for hunting, or just for target?
Even if it didn't expand and just passed through, wouldn't a .45 wound channel be adequate to harvest deer due to having great penetration?
I thought that a flat metplate was suppose to smack hard with a fairly high shock value.
I'm just curious because I have some, but need to buy sabots.
Even if it didn't expand and just passed through, wouldn't a .45 wound channel be adequate to harvest deer due to having great penetration?
I thought that a flat metplate was suppose to smack hard with a fairly high shock value.
I'm just curious because I have some, but need to buy sabots.
One way to view the changing of the shape of a bullet, or making it a larger diameter, is to picture that a force is required to do this work. This force comes from the lung, heart, etc. tissue. If the bullet didn't expand, the tissue wouldn't have to exert this force. It is the exerting of this force on the bullet, to make it expand, that leads to much more damage of tissue, than there would be, if the bullet retained it's shape, and punched a 45 caliber hole. Right or wrong, the view that it is the tissue that does the work to change the shape of the bullet, explains to me, why expanding bullets are more better.
08-09-2011 | 05:24 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 766
Likes: 0
From: Central Connecticut
I understand that we're all mostly hunting deer. But I did find an interesting reference about terminal performance. This would suggest that the type of bullet depends more on the class of game animal, and velocity to an extent. A very large heavy animal may require a bullet that does provide maximum penetration to reach deep into the vitals in order to put it down quickly. The particular bullet that I was asking about is a .45-70 bullet. I'm not doubting what has been said, it's just that there's different applications for different animals, whether that happened to be buffalo, moose, bear, muskox, etc...as opposed to deer. To just think about how large a horse is compared to a deer. And handguns are being referred to because of their lower velocities, which the .45-70 also has, especially when fired from some older rifles and when loaded with some powders. Keep in mind that I'm only guessing about the types of animals. Maybe they're called thick skinned game.
Classes of bullet
There are three basic classes of bullet:
those designed for maximum accuracy at varying ranges
those designed to maximize damage to a target by penetrating as deeply as possible
those designed to maximize damage to a target by deforming to control the depth to which the bullet penetrates.
The third class may limit penetration by expanding or fragmenting.......
Flat point
The simplest maximum disruption bullet is one with a wide, flat tip.[citation needed] This increases the effective surface area, as rounded bullets can allow tissues to "flow" around the edges. It also increases drag during flight, which decreases the depth to which the bullet penetrates. Flat point bullets, with fronts of up to 90% of the overall bullet diameter, are usually designed for use against large or dangerous game. They are often made of unusually hard alloys, are longer and heavier than normal for their caliber, and even include exotic materials such as tungsten to increase their sectional density. These bullets are designed to penetrate deeply through muscle and bone, while causing a wound channel of nearly the full diameter of the bullet. These bullets are designed to penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs from any shooting angle and at a far enough range. One of the common hunting applications of the flat point bullet is large game such as bear hunted with a handgun in a .44 Magnum or larger caliber. The disadvantage of flat point bullets is the reduction in aerodynamic performance; the flat point induces much drag, leading to significantly reduced velocities at long range.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_ballistics
There are three basic classes of bullet:
those designed for maximum accuracy at varying ranges
those designed to maximize damage to a target by penetrating as deeply as possible
those designed to maximize damage to a target by deforming to control the depth to which the bullet penetrates.
The third class may limit penetration by expanding or fragmenting.......
Flat point
The simplest maximum disruption bullet is one with a wide, flat tip.[citation needed] This increases the effective surface area, as rounded bullets can allow tissues to "flow" around the edges. It also increases drag during flight, which decreases the depth to which the bullet penetrates. Flat point bullets, with fronts of up to 90% of the overall bullet diameter, are usually designed for use against large or dangerous game. They are often made of unusually hard alloys, are longer and heavier than normal for their caliber, and even include exotic materials such as tungsten to increase their sectional density. These bullets are designed to penetrate deeply through muscle and bone, while causing a wound channel of nearly the full diameter of the bullet. These bullets are designed to penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs from any shooting angle and at a far enough range. One of the common hunting applications of the flat point bullet is large game such as bear hunted with a handgun in a .44 Magnum or larger caliber. The disadvantage of flat point bullets is the reduction in aerodynamic performance; the flat point induces much drag, leading to significantly reduced velocities at long range.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_ballistics
Last edited by arcticap; 08-09-2011 at 05:46 PM.
08-09-2011 | 08:42 PM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,612
Likes: 0
I can tell you, i have shot one deer with a 300gr hardcast with a pretty good sized metplat. He walked right under me and i put it right between his shoulders aiming down and slightly away. Blew straight through his spine and into the dirt under him and never retrieved the bullet.
He tumbled down the hill a few yards. Probably dead before he stopped sliding.
The 400gr+ cayugad casts a bit soft would just flatten them.
He tumbled down the hill a few yards. Probably dead before he stopped sliding.
The 400gr+ cayugad casts a bit soft would just flatten them.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 08-09-2011 at 08:48 PM.
