nope, just a shill....cant speak for builder but......

You made me look that one up!!

Shill = An insider posing as a satisfied customer.
Shill = A hobbyist who writes unwarranted positive reviews in exchange for discounts or special favors from an agency or provider

dont get me wrong....i believe all on this board are avid outdoorsman but i question someones reviews and thoughts on products...when they are supplied to some for free to come on this board and keep the hype of the item up....

how do you think some average joe or supposed to be average joe can make a statement like..... If i have anything to do with it they will..... when it comes to lehigh and knight.....fine products but the insider is here pushing them along and getting the word out. who was that, that had a prototype mountaineer??? to write a review and get the pics out to us and tell us what a fine piece of equipment it was.... i am sure it is but, cant stand this kind of advertising!!

I was once told, that is the reason this poster is not on the MM forum anymore....

All it takes is shooting a book load of N110 in a 50cal SML and you will hate BH209. Its 5 times cleaner, cheaper, easy to ignite and only takes half the amount to make way more fps.

After trying it, i see what a rip off BH209 really is if you want top performance with sabots. It sure as hell isn't harder to make.

To bad it can't be used in Colorado ML season, or I would have got a Savage when they came out. It doesn't make sense to shoot it during rifle season when a CF is a better deal.

That is exactly why free samples are provided by many different companies. You in effect become a cheap source of testing, information and advertising for a product. i would say that most sources of samples want honest feedback from the tester, while they also run the risk that you may not like the product and would say that also.

Actually you can do the same thing, especially for those two companies. Just email them your thoughts as a lot of other folks do.

A case in point... In the Pacific Northwest we can not use 209 primers for ML hunting. Knight made a conversion kit for the Extreme called a Western Kit...

This was Knight's original thought for the Western Kit...



If you look at the bolt you will see that is open all the way around. I believed that to be a bit un-safe in the fact that flying pieces of the caps could be lunched.

I wrote them an email, both Knight and Lehigh, and suggested a modification that i felt would make the gun safer, but yet meet the rules of the 3 states in the Pacific North West. They actually listened to a regular old consumer and produced a change that I feel is much better.

The bottom bolt in this picture was produced and is much of what i envisioned.



Now the bolt closes arounf the nipple and cap and offers some protection from flying parts, yet meets the rules of each state...



Yep! Knight sent me a bolt - free - and yes I have a stake in the production and information about this product. And yes! I did have something to do with the product design.

You can make a difference!

Have you been to other forums that are sponsored by manufactures... All of this in the normal everyday daily business.

All of us get the information and get a chance to make our own judgements.

Before today, did you know there was a Western Kit for the Knight DISC Extreme and did you know there was user created modification?

IRB, just so you know this (the shill thing) had nothing to do with the reason Grouse is not on MM. It was completly a different matter altogether.

Further, we all have favorites including myself - I push and I like Lehigh bullets, and I am also a big fan of Knight rifles - they are good ones and I have no problem saying so or even trying to show others that they are.

I really dislike BH because i believe they are taking you to the cleaners on the price - I do like T7 and push it as a decent powder also - the best for me. I really do prefer MMP sabots to Harvesters and I believe that the Bushnell elite scopes are one fine product and do not mind telling you so. I also think the Leupold U-slam scope is a good one a bit busy in the reticule but a good scope. Bull Shop conicals are awesome and if you are shooting conicals they are the ones to go to. Oh! and those concicals, were built and pushed with thoughts from average Joe shooters on DWB's forum. If you are shooting productlion lead copper bullets Go Speer Deep curls... really decent bullets.

According to the definition(s)

Shill = An insider posing as a satisfied customer.

He and many others on this and a lot of other forums get samples from many different companies... Just call havester they will send you all kinds of samples and realy do hope that you will talk about them. Many other large and small companies do the same thing... now does that mean you are an 'insider' - i am not sure but a lot of us have a stake in success of a product, but i can tell you Tom does not get a monetary payment from Knight or Lehigh, and I can guarantee you he is not posing.


Shill = A hobbyist who writes unwarranted positive reviews in exchange for discounts or special favors from an agency or provider.

I think I could also tell you that he and I know I would not write a positive reivew if the product did not deserve that positive review. I probably would not write anything if it were real negative in Tom's case he would tell you flat out or the product sponsor the negatives straight out...

If you do not want to here or see reviews of products by a certain individual(s) - do as I do ignore them do not read them.

As already said we all have our favorites and usually that is what we emphasize in our ramblings - I think it is your job to evalute the writing and make a decision to discard or check further.

sorry for the length...

And you cant use BH209 in some PacNW states because of the open primer regs and bad performance with that primer design...your point is????

Change the laws if you dont like them. Missouri did years ago

BTW a good SML will match MANY CFs in deer hunting ability out to 200 yards easily.....you just got to be willing to pay the price. Even my Savage with a 325gr FTX and not even a max load is easily good enough to 300 yards but im not. That blows 45/70 out of the water and can match 404 Jeffrey knock down with a 400gr from a $600 gun. Customs built for sabotless have made the sky the limit if you got deep pockets. 500 yard kills is well within being a reality with several of them.

I guess I still don't see the point in a smokeless muzzleloader. If your going to go that route why don't you just buy a Ruger No 1. Its a single shot and a really nice gun and a whole lot of different cals. I'll admit, even wonder if BH209 is pushing the limits too far on muzzleloading. Muzzleloading use to be a throw back gun era and now its just as hight tech and expensive as centerfires. So I don't know. Just stick with my BH209 and see what happens.

amen!!! I pretty much agree...

also I have no problem wit those that choose to shoot real smokeless, but it holds no interest for me.

If i wanted to hunt with smokeless - i would just bring my 300 win back out of retirement.

I really do prefer to hunt with a ML... yet others would say tyo me get rid of the inlines and the all different powder subs and just use real black, percusssion caps, or a flinter...

"Can not please all the people all the time"

So why even go that route - just get your CF out and go do the deed