As we all can see there is a lighter faster crowd and a heavier slower crowd, especially in the muzzleloader world of bullets.arrowing a deer at 35 yards, which is close enough in some cases for the deer to react to the string slap, can not in any way be compared to a conical even at 150 yds.i bow hunted for 10 yrs and a huge part of a deer reacting to the string slap was they were aware of something being out of place, before i even drew the bow for the shot.regardless if you shoot heavy conicals or lighter faster 200-250 gr bullets, the animal never hears the shot until it's to late. in other words dead is dead period lol.a heavy metplate conical IMHO is a lot more predictable than most hollow point bullets, not all but most on the market today.at ranges from 150-200 yds i still believe the heavier say 300-460 is a better choice.i do not care for pure lead hollow point bullets at any range, especially say 0- 50 yds, since they can and do come apart.our military has it's reasons for using the little 223 round, most of the worlds other armed forces use a much heavier bullet.i suppose both have there reasons and again IMHO the heavier bullet is the better choice.in the end a quality well placed bullet of whatever we decide to shoot. will consistently produce dead animals. Ray

I knew one flew off somewhere but the other one X'ed perfectly. 297.6 grains retained out of 300.

Here is the video of the bullet being captured in a bundle of phone books.

Another reason people like a lighter bullet (whether they admit or not) is the recoil. They don't like the bite of the gun. I grew up with large caliber guns with heavy bullets. I'll be that way till I die. And have never lost a animal yet

If those SOCOMs will shoot at 2100fps using smokeless i will be thrilled. My GMB54 loves that bullet in a Harvester sabot and shoots as well or better than the 54x50 options. It was the first 54x45X combo that really impressed me and ive shot many 54cals with sabots. 54x50s have been my go to combination for years but mostly with 50-275gr Barnes Expander MZs before i started using BH209. It worked so well i didn't see a need for a heavier option and it expanded great at moderate speeds.

In the Lehighs i still prefer the 275gr-277gr 458s for 50cals. It has performed excellent on paper and media. Im pretty sure it would be devastating on deer to elk sized game. Using smokeless at 2300fps they would likely kill any North American big game.....If i can get them to shoot close to that fps without blowing a sabot it will be my go to bullet.

Im not recoil shy either, One of my favorites is a 325gr FTX at 2300fps (smokeless Savage) or 300gr+ bullets in my GMB54 with max loads of BH209. The little 6.5lb GMB has quite a bit of recoil with some loads. The 50-385gr Rem CLHP is a beast and way over kill for anything i hunt. I just wanted to see how well they would shoot and it took a max load to get tight groups.

Ive let a few friends shoot that load and none wanted a 2nd shot.

I guess i'm from the middle school. I like the 300gr Thor with 100gr of BH 209.

Actually, it's not so much that I like it, but my Omega likes it. Good enough for me.



Yes, for those paying attention. I have the Omega back. (long story) I'll hunt with it, and play with the Renegade like before.

Glad you got your Omega back... it really is a very good gun...

I agree. I won't fight it anymore. I'm sure it has elk in it's future, and i'll begin to love it then.

You are going to have an extremely difficult time convincing me of that.

With a hundred yard shot the difference would be between 2 and 3 hundredths of a second. Offhand I have a hard time believing it would be a significant factor.
Art