Another XTP falure!
12-17-2010, 08:53 AM
#11
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
I have never shot a deer with a sabot/bullet combination. Not from lack of trying mind you. So maybe my comment means nothing. I shoot A LOT of XTPs on the practice range. They are one of the least expensive bullets I can shoot. Also I find them to be very accurate and consistent in their flight for the most part. What I have discovered through countless rounds of testing them in various ways is...
IMO... I believe most people that hunt with the XTP are pushing them too fast. Remember, this is a pistol bullet. I have a friend (on line friend) that hunts with the 300 grain XTP. He hunts three different states with a Knight rifle that has a 22 inch barrel. He takes deer every year with that XTP but he shoots 85 grains of Goex powder. He claims to have no problem with knock down or blood trails. I think at the speed he is shooting them, they are performing just like they were intended to do. Maybe at the top of their game, but still they hit, open up, plow through, and because of the lower velocity, they do not come apart as much. A lot of posters I read shoot 100-120 grains on average. That to me is a lot of powder.
I agree with Sabotloader, there are some better constructed bullets out there. The Nosler, the Barnes, the Speer Deep Curl, Parker Extreme, the Lehigh, etc.. the list goes on and on. And many of them are a premium bullet and cost a premium price. But if that XTP is working that well for you, and you have that much confidence in it, then by all means use it. And don't worry about what other people claim it does.
I personally saw it as sarcasm as soon as I read it. Thanks for the smile it caused. And congratulations on the deer.
IMO... I believe most people that hunt with the XTP are pushing them too fast. Remember, this is a pistol bullet. I have a friend (on line friend) that hunts with the 300 grain XTP. He hunts three different states with a Knight rifle that has a 22 inch barrel. He takes deer every year with that XTP but he shoots 85 grains of Goex powder. He claims to have no problem with knock down or blood trails. I think at the speed he is shooting them, they are performing just like they were intended to do. Maybe at the top of their game, but still they hit, open up, plow through, and because of the lower velocity, they do not come apart as much. A lot of posters I read shoot 100-120 grains on average. That to me is a lot of powder.
I agree with Sabotloader, there are some better constructed bullets out there. The Nosler, the Barnes, the Speer Deep Curl, Parker Extreme, the Lehigh, etc.. the list goes on and on. And many of them are a premium bullet and cost a premium price. But if that XTP is working that well for you, and you have that much confidence in it, then by all means use it. And don't worry about what other people claim it does.
I personally saw it as sarcasm as soon as I read it. Thanks for the smile it caused. And congratulations on the deer.
12-17-2010, 09:42 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
This actually brings out a point that is being missed a good part of the time.
For one thing there are bullets designed for many different purposes, these XTP bullets were designed to be efficient handgun bullets shot at velocities of from 900 t0 1500 feet per second.
The bullets primary purpose as it was being used was to kill a deer and it did and the deer was recovered; whats bad about that?
My definition of a bad bullet is one that don't do the job, as an example before I new any better I shot a deer with a Power Belt 245 gr with a 120 gr load of pyrodex right on the front shoulder any decent bullet would have killed the deer. Instead it blew hair skin and meat all over the snow and we tracked that deer for several miles and watched him twice with binoculars standing and looking back at us, we could see the big hole in his shoulder and he was limping but he was headed for the next county and I doubt that he died from that bullet, that bullet failed.
Some of us complain when the lead comes out of the jacket or when the bullet does not exit and while this may not be failure it is some times expressed as such. That's why the make a lot of different bullets if you don't like the way it works the try a different bullet I won't say better because that's a matter of opinion. Some think the copper bullets are better some think the bonded bullets are better some think the brass bullets are better some think conicals are better but to me the only time a bullet fails is when it hits where it should kill the deer and it does not do the job.
For one thing there are bullets designed for many different purposes, these XTP bullets were designed to be efficient handgun bullets shot at velocities of from 900 t0 1500 feet per second.
The bullets primary purpose as it was being used was to kill a deer and it did and the deer was recovered; whats bad about that?
My definition of a bad bullet is one that don't do the job, as an example before I new any better I shot a deer with a Power Belt 245 gr with a 120 gr load of pyrodex right on the front shoulder any decent bullet would have killed the deer. Instead it blew hair skin and meat all over the snow and we tracked that deer for several miles and watched him twice with binoculars standing and looking back at us, we could see the big hole in his shoulder and he was limping but he was headed for the next county and I doubt that he died from that bullet, that bullet failed.
Some of us complain when the lead comes out of the jacket or when the bullet does not exit and while this may not be failure it is some times expressed as such. That's why the make a lot of different bullets if you don't like the way it works the try a different bullet I won't say better because that's a matter of opinion. Some think the copper bullets are better some think the bonded bullets are better some think the brass bullets are better some think conicals are better but to me the only time a bullet fails is when it hits where it should kill the deer and it does not do the job.
12-17-2010, 10:00 AM
#14
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 374
This actually brings out a point that is being missed a good part of the time.
For one thing there are bullets designed for many different purposes, these XTP bullets were designed to be efficient handgun bullets shot at velocities of from 900 t0 1500 feet per second.
The bullets primary purpose as it was being used was to kill a deer and it did and the deer was recovered; whats bad about that?
My definition of a bad bullet is one that don't do the job, as an example before I new any better I shot a deer with a Power Belt 245 gr with a 120 gr load of pyrodex right on the front shoulder any decent bullet would have killed the deer. Instead it blew hair skin and meat all over the snow and we tracked that deer for several miles and watched him twice with binoculars standing and looking back at us, we could see the big hole in his shoulder and he was limping but he was headed for the next county and I doubt that he died from that bullet, that bullet failed.
Some of us complain when the lead comes out of the jacket or when the bullet does not exit and while this may not be failure it is some times expressed as such. That's why the make a lot of different bullets if you don't like the way it works the try a different bullet I won't say better because that's a matter of opinion. Some think the copper bullets are better some think the bonded bullets are better some think the brass bullets are better some think conicals are better but to me the only time a bullet fails is when it hits where it should kill the deer and it does not do the job.
For one thing there are bullets designed for many different purposes, these XTP bullets were designed to be efficient handgun bullets shot at velocities of from 900 t0 1500 feet per second.
The bullets primary purpose as it was being used was to kill a deer and it did and the deer was recovered; whats bad about that?
My definition of a bad bullet is one that don't do the job, as an example before I new any better I shot a deer with a Power Belt 245 gr with a 120 gr load of pyrodex right on the front shoulder any decent bullet would have killed the deer. Instead it blew hair skin and meat all over the snow and we tracked that deer for several miles and watched him twice with binoculars standing and looking back at us, we could see the big hole in his shoulder and he was limping but he was headed for the next county and I doubt that he died from that bullet, that bullet failed.
Some of us complain when the lead comes out of the jacket or when the bullet does not exit and while this may not be failure it is some times expressed as such. That's why the make a lot of different bullets if you don't like the way it works the try a different bullet I won't say better because that's a matter of opinion. Some think the copper bullets are better some think the bonded bullets are better some think the brass bullets are better some think conicals are better but to me the only time a bullet fails is when it hits where it should kill the deer and it does not do the job.
12-17-2010, 10:14 AM
#15
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
Some of us complain when the lead comes out of the jacket or when the bullet does not exit and while this may not be failure it is some times expressed as such. That's why the make a lot of different bullets if you don't like the way it works the try a different bullet I won't say better because that's a matter of opinion. Some think the copper bullets are better some think the bonded bullets are better some think the brass bullets are better some think conicals are better but to me the only time a bullet fails is when it hits where it should kill the deer and it does not do the job.
What Lemoyne said. Lots of folks make good bullets; use whatever you want too. i won't try to push you toward any bullet. i will say that my chosen bullets work very well for me: They may not work for you. If the bullet you are using does not work for you or you're not happy that the deer went 40 yards after being hit; then use something else. Do not try to tell me that my bullet does not work because of some testing that was done on non-animal material.
There is very little doubt that some folks are pushing bullets too fast. Currently i'm using 100 grains of 3F Pinnacle with the 240 grain .430 bullet in my CVA guns. The velocity with 100 grains of 3F Pinnacle is around 1,750 fps: That's fast enough for me.
12-17-2010, 12:22 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 588
12-18-2010, 03:02 AM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Upstate New York-Broome County
Posts: 597
I have never shot a deer with a sabot/bullet combination. Not from lack of trying mind you. So maybe my comment means nothing. I shoot A LOT of XTPs on the practice range. They are one of the least expensive bullets I can shoot. Also I find them to be very accurate and consistent in their flight for the most part. What I have discovered through countless rounds of testing them in various ways is...
IMO... I believe most people that hunt with the XTP are pushing them too fast. Remember, this is a pistol bullet. I have a friend (on line friend) that hunts with the 300 grain XTP. He hunts three different states with a Knight rifle that has a 22 inch barrel. He takes deer every year with that XTP but he shoots 85 grains of Goex powder. He claims to have no problem with knock down or blood trails. I think at the speed he is shooting them, they are performing just like they were intended to do. Maybe at the top of their game, but still they hit, open up, plow through, and because of the lower velocity, they do not come apart as much. A lot of posters I read shoot 100-120 grains on average. That to me is a lot of powder.
I agree with Sabotloader, there are some better constructed bullets out there. The Nosler, the Barnes, the Speer Deep Curl, Parker Extreme, the Lehigh, etc.. the list goes on and on. And many of them are a premium bullet and cost a premium price. But if that XTP is working that well for you, and you have that much confidence in it, then by all means use it. And don't worry about what other people claim it does.
I personally saw it as sarcasm as soon as I read it. Thanks for the smile it caused. And congratulations on the deer.
IMO... I believe most people that hunt with the XTP are pushing them too fast. Remember, this is a pistol bullet. I have a friend (on line friend) that hunts with the 300 grain XTP. He hunts three different states with a Knight rifle that has a 22 inch barrel. He takes deer every year with that XTP but he shoots 85 grains of Goex powder. He claims to have no problem with knock down or blood trails. I think at the speed he is shooting them, they are performing just like they were intended to do. Maybe at the top of their game, but still they hit, open up, plow through, and because of the lower velocity, they do not come apart as much. A lot of posters I read shoot 100-120 grains on average. That to me is a lot of powder.
I agree with Sabotloader, there are some better constructed bullets out there. The Nosler, the Barnes, the Speer Deep Curl, Parker Extreme, the Lehigh, etc.. the list goes on and on. And many of them are a premium bullet and cost a premium price. But if that XTP is working that well for you, and you have that much confidence in it, then by all means use it. And don't worry about what other people claim it does.
I personally saw it as sarcasm as soon as I read it. Thanks for the smile it caused. And congratulations on the deer.
Charlie
12-18-2010, 05:40 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Posts: 2,976
Yesterday I shot a small whitetail buck (management deer) at a distance of approximately 75 yards with a 50 caliber rifle using an XTP bullet in a sabot. The buck ran for nearly 30 yards before falling over, and then kicked a couple of times! I guess it is lucky that the deer was recovered after being shot with such an extremely poor bullet. In my defense, I did not know that I was using a bad bullet until I read it on this forum.
(BP)