LOL no i didnt drill all the way though. I used a #65 drill bit to clean out the shavings and followed up with my air compressor to blow anything else out.

I just took a measurement of 1.644" OAL with a W209 installed

MountainDevil54

Is that with your firing pin bushing screwed all the way in?

And when you close it you are getting a snug fit against the primer???

You are out of CCI-209m's correct? I wonder what that might measure?

I also have to admit i can not figure out why when you drilled it out it stopped shooting unless you lost a seal at the primer or in the bore. Really and honestly that should have helped you...

The plug in my Triumph has the concavity on the end just like the Omega plug, and just like the home made Accura plug. My Triumph plug, with this 'powder pocket', has been 100% reliable with BH. It has a flash hole of 0.028", as does the Omega plug, as does the home made plug. The Triumph plug has a flash channel of 1/8", as does the Omega, and the home made Accura plug.

These plugs have several things in common, and they are all 3, 100% reliable with BH.

If i understand correctly, you feel the Triumph plug needs modifying. Myself, i haven't found this to be the case. The Triumph plug, and the Omega plug work great using BH, just as they come from TC.

I am puzzled why You and some other on these forum, insist that a plug needs a 5/32" flash channel, and a 0.032" flash hole to be able to work successfully with BH. This just simply isn't true.

Myself, i have experienced great success with breech plug that have a 0.028" flash hole, and a 1/8" flash channel. You, and some other want to believe the commonality of successful plug is not the concavity of the end of the breech plug, whereas i see this 'powder pocket' as being the single common thing of all successful BH breech plug. My experience is, of course, limited, but all the successful BH breech plug in my life, have either a 3mm or 1/8" flash channel, and anywhere from a 0.028" to a 0.32" flash hole. The singular thing all these successful plug have in common is the 'powder pocket'. It also has been written that the reason some plug work well with BH is because the concavity in the end brings the powder closer to the primer, and that this is why they are good plugs. It seems to me, the Triumph plug shows this explanation is false. Another plug that has the powder quite far away from the primer, is the QRBP with a vent liner installed. Mine has been 100% reliable using BH in single digit temperatures. I have only shot it about 50 times, so i am not able to make a very strong case for it's success as of yet.

To answer your question as to whether i have played around with the TC speed breech; the answer is no i haven't, and the reason why is, because it works perfectly just the way TC sent it to me.

I assure you, i have no agenda or belief to push, rather, i just want to shoot my rifles without wondering if they will go boom.

Oh no im sorry, i removed my plug from the barrel and measured it like that with the primer installed. Im not sure how i'd do it any other way.

I dont have any cci 209m's our local store is out and hardly any of the big stores stock them.

With all the blow back,i lost a LOT of seal somewhere in the process.

I'll take the gun apart and see if that bushing is screwed in all of the way or not, it looks to be but i will double check.

Okay it is screwed in all the way

DOH! lol

ronlaughlin

ref: Triumph plug

Taken from the Western Powders email:

Obviously Western does not think so as they are having a problem with that one also.

Ron for me the 1/8 flash channel builds carbon faster than it needs to. Opening the channel to a larger diameter really slows down the carbon build up. IMO, one of the reasons the Soeed Breech works so well is the length of the flash channel increases it's abilty to hole more gas. The .028 flash hole will work, but i believe it is a proven fact that .032 will work in a wider range of temperatures and weather conditions.

The other thing I find is that I can use the cooler primers and avoid the quick build up of carbon and get less potential for gas cutting on the nose of the BP. The vent liner virtually assures that you will not ever gas cut the nose of the BP.

I am on the road right now so there is not much as far as picture information that i can share with you.

I can share that the size of the flash channel is a key asset in making a univerally acceptable all powders, long lasting bp and reducing the blowback pressure on the face of the primer. You may see this re-emphasized in the new breech plugs that will be coming on the market on a later date.

One of the things i can share is that we have found with the increased size of the flame channel and the inverted cone shaped nose on the BP pressures at the primer have been reduced.

MountainDevil54

OK.. now insert the w209 and close the gun... does it touch the busing as it closes or is there an air space between the top of the primer and the face of the bushing? -Make sure the BP is seated on the bottom.

Another test... wrap some teflon tape on the w209 - make it a little fatter so it will not go into the primer pocket all the way. Now close the gun and see if it contacts the bushing when closed. If it doesn't make it fatter...

Once you get contact... try the impossible - open the gun ever so gently trying not to jar the primer or change its seat at all. Then gently remove the bp with the primer in place amd measure OAL... That should give you an accurate head space number... There is one more step but i will share that one with you when you get this homework done... if you are inclned to try all of this...

sabotloader

Have you ever heard a Triumph owner complain about BH ignition failure? I don't recall reading that Western was having problems with the Triumph breech plug.

Out of curiosity, i once left a breech plug go for firing after firing without cleaning. After many many firings, and removing the breech plug, and checking it, i found the largest drill i could get into the channel was 1/16". The breech plug still ignited BH just fine with a 1/16" flame channel.

My rifles, with a 0.028" flash hole ignite BH at -15* or so.

Magnum primers, have never been used for hunting in my rifles. Right now i am using W209 in my Omega(s), and Triumph, and V2. In the Accura, i am using STS primer.

Large volume flame channel or small volume flame channel, i experience no issues igniting BH.

If there is a good fit of the primer in the seat, there is no blow by whether one uses a Lehigh vent liner, or a PR vent liner or does not use a vent liner. If the primer seat is loose, or suffers flame cutting it doesn't matter one bit what one uses for a vent liner, there will be blow by.

I have witnessed over and over and over again what is required in the design of a breech plug to ignite BH209. Facts are facts. A 3mm flash channel is able to work with BH. A 0.028" flash hole works with BH. Leakage around the primer is not related to the volume of the flash channel, or the shape of a vent liner, it is determined by the fit of the primer in the breech plug. The flash channel does not need to be 5/32" to work with BH.

One doesn't need a lot of theories to make a good breech plug. All one need do, is copy the Omega breech plug. It works.

Not one thing i have written is 'opinion', or theory. Every thing i have written has been observed many times over.

However, i do need to add one opinion. The QRBP will end up being a paradigm changing breech plug. This is my one and only statement without basis, and is one old man's prediction of what the future brings.

SL, the best i can see, Its LIGHTLY touching the bushing. I used a custom light where i can get into the action area and i can see it touching up against it, How much pressure is against it, i do not know.

I'll try the teflon tape and get with with you on measurements.

Ron, i wont comment on the triumps plug until i find the posts. Last thing i need is more people calling me a liar on it LOL.