Ok with the lights off and my little light, theres NO contact whatsoever against the bushing.

1.651" after wrapping the primer in tape and inspecting it until i saw it touch the bushing.

I even closed the rifle and it left a small gap, but with a firm slam, that should give me a perfect "crush" fit with the W209. What do you think?

this is a great thread,thanks for starting this up again mike.this is just my opinion but i believe the most important thing for igniting bh209 is a trully sealed breech with primer being held firmly in place with no play.two of my knights have knight NFPJ plugs that have convex ends 1/8" flash channels and i believe .030 flash holes and have worked flawlessly down to(if i remember correctly)11*.one of these plugs fit great and is 99% blowback free,the other had a little play so i used a very thin O-ring that busta sent me(thanks again)made that one 100%.my knight shadows(i,ve had two)with the same BP design with the addition of the proper sized O-ring work good too but only for 8-10 shots which is still fine for hunting.my knight vision NFPJ and triumph both came blowback free and have never had any issues.i have no doubt that a larger channel or flashole helps but some but some plugs without a flash chamber at all (knights crossfire-metrics unlimited for the huntsman/sidekick)work very good too.just my thoughts......karl

As to why CVA MLs apparently have some trouble shooting BH209 out of the box (w/ no mods to the breechblug), I suspect some of us are overstating BH209's popularity. Here on the ML boards, it is well known. Not so much in the real world, at least in my personal experience. I have yet to have anyone at the range recognize my powder - I am always going through the whole spiel of "cleans with Hoppes #9, no swabbing, yadda yadda".

And apparently it is still hard to find in many parts of the country. The head gun guy at Carter's Country, probably the biggest hunting store in Houston, TX (and Houston is a BIG city) gave me a blank stare when I asked about it. We are always seeing posts about where to get it.

I think that the "two pellets and yer good to go" crowd is a big one, and not too much affected by what goes on online. They are not looking to change what works for them and if CVA makes them happy their business will flourish.

One last thing. The guy at Western Powders said CVA is "aligned" with Hogden, whatever that means. But I would guess if CVA MLs were more BH209 friendly, Hogden's business might suffer. Just sayin'.

Boy I'm glad I own T/C's and don't have to worry about that stuff.

MountainDevil54

OK... the first OAL that you gave me was 1.644" Confirm for that was with the w209 in the primer cup and it was siting completly on and against the primer shelf in the cup. You may have to gently tap the primer down snug to get this measurement. Yes - No???

The next measurment with the primer on or close to your firing pin bushing the OAL is 1.651"

So to me it shows that you primer shelf should be .007 higher in the cup to get a snug fit with the w209 primer.

That is so little difference it is hardly worth doing anything.....

Next question... When you are shooting with a standard sub and a stock CVA BP - do you get enough blowback to even worry about. It seems to me that you would be fairly clean.

Since I do not have a break open CVA, I would suggest to you that I would univerally build (shim) the primer cup maybe .010 higher in the pocket to allow all the primers shorter than the W209 to work equally well in that gun. That would also mean anythime you use a Winchester primer you would be crushing the very tip everytime when you closed it and the middle length primers like the Fed and CCI would be very close to sitting on the shelf. But again it goes back you are so close it might not be worth the project.

Next asignment... measure the depth of the primer pocket from the top of the BP to the primer shelf....

I am on the road now but possibly when I get home, i will try to find or order a CVA hex head breech plug take another good look at one. The only CVA BP i MIGHT have is one for the old Fire Bolt.

Do you still have either of those BP's that I thought you got from Saxman1?

The only clear thing that does for me is to assure me that a doulble modified CVA plug should work very well with BH in your gun 100% of the time, actually probably all of your more modern CVA's.

Here is another one of my 2 bit drawings - look at it and see if it makes any sense to you...

From my quick first initial read of your post you have the bases covered.

The only thing i would add, and you can confirm with Busta, is if the flash channels were opened to .159" you would improve the breathing and the handling of the gas emitted by the various primers. Then along with a .032 flash hole you would also reduce the amount of fouling being built in the flash channel.

My factory DISC breech plugs will shoot BH fine as long as I keep the carbon out, they can get dirty but they still shoot even with a FPJ.

TNHagiesWhile the TC plugs do shoot with out misfires I do modify them, first if the flame channel is modified by enlarging with a #21 drill they the carbon builds up about 80% slower. Then while they are not near as soft as a CVA plug they do Flame cut after a couple of cases of BH is burn in them using heavy loads so the comes the Lehigh vent liner [ I used to make my own but the Lehigh heat treat is much better].
In conclusion you get what you pay for, and I have yet to find one I could not improve on.

lee

Timely post... especially when Western notes that they do have a problem with the TC Speed Breech, I am sure a part of that problem is the length of the plug - but the 1/8" flash channel can carbon up with all the others...

With Winchester primers i had delays in Kentucky with My Triumph. Four or Five people were there that you know.

That there, is a picture of the QRBP with a W209 primer in place. Note the rim. The top of the W209 is below the rim. The 1.644" measurement is the length of the QRBP. The 1.644" measurement has naught to do with the W209. Every primer from the STS to the W209, when in the primer pocket will measure 1.644". The caliper doesn't touch the primer.