An Interesting Post from Western Powders
12-09-2010 | 01:17 PM
#41
Banned
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Boncarbo,Colorado
Pm me your address.
Don said he'd check to see if he had any, if he does he will send one.
Got the Optima cleaned out now, that darn gun scrubber worked awesome! In a way i should thank you for making the optima a mess! LOL I got to try it out on a filthy rifle.
Don said he'd check to see if he had any, if he does he will send one.
Got the Optima cleaned out now, that darn gun scrubber worked awesome! In a way i should thank you for making the optima a mess! LOL I got to try it out on a filthy rifle.
12-09-2010 | 01:24 PM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Saxonburg Pa
PM sent
12-09-2010 | 01:56 PM
#43
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Breechplug, about a year ago you started a long thread with a question that went something like, "what makes a perfect breech plug' or some such thing. That thread was very fun and interesting to me, and has led to quite a lot of fun for me in the days, weeks, and months since. I have learned so very very much, because of that thread.
The Omega breech plug is about as good as it gets. I won't write that is perfect, but it is near; perhaps i should. It works with every available powder.
The Accura breech plug works for you, because of your powder choice. I think it is a good enough plug, and i believe you do too. The only powder i have ever used in my Accura is black horn. Every now and again i experienced a hang fire. This led me to get involved in the thread you started, and this led me to making a home made Accura plug that is better than the Omega plug. The reason i write that this Accura plug is better than the Omega plug, is because i can make it fit each primer to my rifle perfectly, and to date have never experienced a hang fire using black horn. It has only seen single digit temperatures yet, but later this winter, it will experience sub-zero temperatures.
Now we have the QRBP. I have fired the QRBP about 50 shots now. As with the Accura, the only powder i have used in the V2, is black horn. This plug amazes me. CVA told me that each plug is 'fitted' to one rifle. The plug comes with a tool, and using the tool, one 'marries' the plug to the barrel. This has resulted in zero blow by past the threads in my rifle. The first time i used it, i used nothing on the threads. No teflon, no grease, nothing. Fifteen shots later, i removed the plug with my fingers, and it felt like it was easier to remove, than it was to install. There may have been a tiny amount of soot on the threads. Then i shot it about 25 more times, with nothing on the threads. It removes so easily with fingers, that it almost causes me to have a thrill. Today, i shot it 10 times, and i had to force myself to keep my hands away from the breech plug, and remove it. To me, the way the QRBP works, is remarkable.
Is the QRBP the elusive perfect plug? Absolutely not!!! The first time i actually saw one with my own eyes, i couldn't hardly believe what i saw. I was shocked beyond words. The powder end of the QRBP is virtually flat! Flat! CVA, after black horn was out for years, made no effort whatsoever to design a plug that would work with black horn. Spending all the time we spent on that thread you started, told me CVA had made quite an error.
I didn't even try the QRBP, because of my previous experience with the Accura, Omega, and that thread about breech plug. The first thing i did was create a powder pocket like the Omega breech plug, and install a vent liner. This past week, with single digit temperatures was a good test for this 'fixed' QRBP. Left overnight in the truck through the bitter cold, loaded with black horn, and dirty, the V2 never failed to fire.
Making the 2010 CVA compatible with all powders would have been so very very simple. The QRBP could have been the 'perfect' breech plug, alas CVA dropped the ball.
The Omega breech plug is about as good as it gets. I won't write that is perfect, but it is near; perhaps i should. It works with every available powder.
The Accura breech plug works for you, because of your powder choice. I think it is a good enough plug, and i believe you do too. The only powder i have ever used in my Accura is black horn. Every now and again i experienced a hang fire. This led me to get involved in the thread you started, and this led me to making a home made Accura plug that is better than the Omega plug. The reason i write that this Accura plug is better than the Omega plug, is because i can make it fit each primer to my rifle perfectly, and to date have never experienced a hang fire using black horn. It has only seen single digit temperatures yet, but later this winter, it will experience sub-zero temperatures.
Now we have the QRBP. I have fired the QRBP about 50 shots now. As with the Accura, the only powder i have used in the V2, is black horn. This plug amazes me. CVA told me that each plug is 'fitted' to one rifle. The plug comes with a tool, and using the tool, one 'marries' the plug to the barrel. This has resulted in zero blow by past the threads in my rifle. The first time i used it, i used nothing on the threads. No teflon, no grease, nothing. Fifteen shots later, i removed the plug with my fingers, and it felt like it was easier to remove, than it was to install. There may have been a tiny amount of soot on the threads. Then i shot it about 25 more times, with nothing on the threads. It removes so easily with fingers, that it almost causes me to have a thrill. Today, i shot it 10 times, and i had to force myself to keep my hands away from the breech plug, and remove it. To me, the way the QRBP works, is remarkable.
Is the QRBP the elusive perfect plug? Absolutely not!!! The first time i actually saw one with my own eyes, i couldn't hardly believe what i saw. I was shocked beyond words. The powder end of the QRBP is virtually flat! Flat! CVA, after black horn was out for years, made no effort whatsoever to design a plug that would work with black horn. Spending all the time we spent on that thread you started, told me CVA had made quite an error.
I didn't even try the QRBP, because of my previous experience with the Accura, Omega, and that thread about breech plug. The first thing i did was create a powder pocket like the Omega breech plug, and install a vent liner. This past week, with single digit temperatures was a good test for this 'fixed' QRBP. Left overnight in the truck through the bitter cold, loaded with black horn, and dirty, the V2 never failed to fire.
Making the 2010 CVA compatible with all powders would have been so very very simple. The QRBP could have been the 'perfect' breech plug, alas CVA dropped the ball.
Using the Win W209 Primers out of My ACCURA produce little if any blowback, I suspect because there the longest Primer and provide a good tight fit. The ACCURA is a Shooter, so I decided to wait. I did'nt need to replace what was'nt broke.
It's too Bad CVA was'nt on the Ball with this one, but I bet by next year they'll have a replacement BP for the BH.
And by the way, I also read all your Post on your BP Designs, Good Job! and keep up the good work!
(BP)
12-09-2010 | 03:11 PM
#44
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,722
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From: Kerrville, Tx. USA
I am not surprised Western would make a reply like that. After all, when all rifles can shoot his powder, he will sell more powder. I don't own any CVA rifles, but the way I see it, the R&D for the guns lags behind powders. After all, the breechplugs for years were made to shoot real black and pyrodex, and everyone was happy. Then along comes 777 and the breechplugs were not designed for this powder in all cases. For one thing the Omega develops the infamous "crud ring" with the breechplug design they have in that gun. Three years ago, consumers were demanding breechplugs that would solve this problem. So manufacturers starting coming up with breechplugs that gave LESS fire to the powder to reduce this crud ring which of course is the exact opposite of what you need for BH 209. So I suspect that most gun manufacters (including Knight) are working to develop breeches that will handle BH better. Time will tell.
12-09-2010 | 04:28 PM
#45
Thread Starter
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Idaho
12-09-2010 | 04:34 PM
#46
Thread Starter
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Idaho
MountainDevil54
I have modified 6 CVA plugs for shooting BH with a .159" flash channel (which is just slighly larger than 5/32) and a Lehigh vent liner - the folks that have these say they shoot great, but since I have not head spaced them they do have a little blow back.
They are using w209's....
I have modified 6 CVA plugs for shooting BH with a .159" flash channel (which is just slighly larger than 5/32) and a Lehigh vent liner - the folks that have these say they shoot great, but since I have not head spaced them they do have a little blow back.
They are using w209's....
12-09-2010 | 04:41 PM
#47
Thread Starter
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Idaho
jaybez101099
My thoughts would be.... the 3mm flash channel is to narrow the expanding hot gas from the primer can not effectively navigate it without blocking it. the flash hole is to small and traps the gas in the BP.
I use a .159 (slightly greater than 5/32") and a Lehigh vent liner installed either recessed in the plug or on the nose.
This drawing shows what I am indicating. This plug has the vent liner on the end but recessed as Ron does works equally weel in my opinion.
Please explain to me why Blkhorn shoots fine out of all my guns(t/c..triumph..ProHunter.Rem-Genesis) and CVA's cant seem to. What is the difference in the Bp's ? Would a hotter primer help the CVA's?
I use a .159 (slightly greater than 5/32") and a Lehigh vent liner installed either recessed in the plug or on the nose.
This drawing shows what I am indicating. This plug has the vent liner on the end but recessed as Ron does works equally weel in my opinion.
12-09-2010 | 04:42 PM
#48
Banned
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Boncarbo,Colorado
SL, is it as much as what i ended up with today?
i probably over reacted a lot earlier but after having these no fires and then this mess, i was boiling. Once fedex brought some christmas presents i cooled down. I hope the vent liner calms it down. If not i'll just get a new plug.
i probably over reacted a lot earlier but after having these no fires and then this mess, i was boiling. Once fedex brought some christmas presents i cooled down. I hope the vent liner calms it down. If not i'll just get a new plug.
12-09-2010 | 04:51 PM
#49
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Boone & Crockett
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From: Idaho
MountainDevil54
I am going to ask a dumb question and nothing bad is ment by it. When you drilled the the CVA plug, did you pick the flash hole clean. possibly blow the pug out with air? Dumber question you did not drill it all the way through did you?
I am serious about this mail me the plug let me run a #21 bit all the way through it and install a vent liner... i actually would really like you to try it. I can not do anything about the head space because I do not know what the OAL of the plug with the primer installed should be. If I knew that i could also set your head space.
I am asking this a fellow ML shooter and that is all. What I would really like to do is modify a CVA QR plug and have you test that. The one thing you have to be careful of is not to ding the nose since it is a compression fit to your bore.
I am going to ask a dumb question and nothing bad is ment by it. When you drilled the the CVA plug, did you pick the flash hole clean. possibly blow the pug out with air? Dumber question you did not drill it all the way through did you?
I am serious about this mail me the plug let me run a #21 bit all the way through it and install a vent liner... i actually would really like you to try it. I can not do anything about the head space because I do not know what the OAL of the plug with the primer installed should be. If I knew that i could also set your head space.
I am asking this a fellow ML shooter and that is all. What I would really like to do is modify a CVA QR plug and have you test that. The one thing you have to be careful of is not to ding the nose since it is a compression fit to your bore.
12-09-2010 | 05:12 PM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,926
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From: Saxonburg Pa
MountainDevil54
I am going to ask a dumb question and nothing bad is ment by it. When you drilled the the CVA plug, did you pick the flash hole clean. possibly blow the pug out with air? Dumber question you did not drill it all the way through did you?
I am serious about this mail me the plug let me run a #21 bit all the way through it and install a vent liner... i actually would really like you to try it. I can not do anything about the head space because I do not know what the OAL of the plug with the primer installed should be. If I knew that i could also set your head space.
I am asking this a fellow ML shooter and that is all. What I would really like to do is modify a CVA QR plug and have you test that. The one thing you have to be careful of is not to ding the nose since it is a compression fit to your bore.
I am going to ask a dumb question and nothing bad is ment by it. When you drilled the the CVA plug, did you pick the flash hole clean. possibly blow the pug out with air? Dumber question you did not drill it all the way through did you?
I am serious about this mail me the plug let me run a #21 bit all the way through it and install a vent liner... i actually would really like you to try it. I can not do anything about the head space because I do not know what the OAL of the plug with the primer installed should be. If I knew that i could also set your head space.
I am asking this a fellow ML shooter and that is all. What I would really like to do is modify a CVA QR plug and have you test that. The one thing you have to be careful of is not to ding the nose since it is a compression fit to your bore.
Let him send the plug he messed up to me. Already talked to Dave and i think i'm going to hook MD up since i cant be trusted.
