Xtp never again
12-05-2010, 03:33 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Posts: 2,976
This post makes me think that it's not the Bullets Fault. Any Deer shot through the Lungs can only run so far, and Im not saying it can go for miles, mabey if it's lucky it'll make it 30-100 yds. So the Hunter has shot a Deer and it runs into the Thick Stuff. Now it's the Hunter's part to recover the Animal, the Hunter must do all he can to find it. I dont care if you have to look all night for it, a Lung Shot Deer wont be that far away. just find it.
You can use any Bullet mentioned, but if you dont do your part as a Hunter to find the Deer after the shot, dont Blame it on the Bullet.
Also there's TON's of Coyote's where I live and Hunt, if I plan on taking a shot near Dark I better be prepared to do all I can to find the Deer as I know if I dont the Coyote's will. If I take the Shot at Dark, Im going to be damn sure it's a good one and find the Deer, no excuses on why the Deer did'nt leave a good blood trail to follow. Hunting's not suppos-to-be Easy. A good Hunter is also a Great Tracker, you have to be able to read sign without Blood. If it was as easy as following a 2 foot wide Blood Trail in the Snow anyone could do it. A Great Tracker Hunter seperates the Men from the Boy's.
Ther was absolutely No Excuse to leave a Dead Deer unfound untill Morning with Coyote's in the area. If your not 100% Sure you will give it 100% in finding it, then only Hunt in the Morning and forget Evening Hunts.
Sorry so Tough
(BP)
You can use any Bullet mentioned, but if you dont do your part as a Hunter to find the Deer after the shot, dont Blame it on the Bullet.
Also there's TON's of Coyote's where I live and Hunt, if I plan on taking a shot near Dark I better be prepared to do all I can to find the Deer as I know if I dont the Coyote's will. If I take the Shot at Dark, Im going to be damn sure it's a good one and find the Deer, no excuses on why the Deer did'nt leave a good blood trail to follow. Hunting's not suppos-to-be Easy. A good Hunter is also a Great Tracker, you have to be able to read sign without Blood. If it was as easy as following a 2 foot wide Blood Trail in the Snow anyone could do it. A Great Tracker Hunter seperates the Men from the Boy's.
Ther was absolutely No Excuse to leave a Dead Deer unfound untill Morning with Coyote's in the area. If your not 100% Sure you will give it 100% in finding it, then only Hunt in the Morning and forget Evening Hunts.
Sorry so Tough
(BP)
12-05-2010, 03:57 PM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Posts: 2,976
Also a Deer that is shot will most likely take the same path to exit as it came in on, a well worn Deer Trail, ect. It more than likely just wont run straight through thick stuff as it excapes, it know's where it's headed. After it's on his Deer Run, it'll follow it untill he expire's and usuallly it will be off to one side or the other of the Deer Run. If you know the area you hunt then you should know the well established Deer Runs. Snow Help's a-lot, but is not necessary.
After the shot, especially if it run's into thick cover (LISTEN) to where it runs and is headed, mark and pinpoint that direction in your head and pick a Mark to pinpoint the exact location the Deer ran. The Deer will make a heck of a-lot of comotion as it runs off, many fail to LISTEN after the shot, they just LOOK.
If the shot is seen and it's a Lung Shot you will find your Deer, just Look. If it's a BAD Shot, Intestines, WAIT, do NOT go after the Deer. The Deer will often BED Down within 50-100yds and EXPIRE within 5 Hours. The Blood will be good at first and then peter off to drops, it will be Dark Blood. If you go after the Animal right away you will jump it from it's Bed and most likely Never Find it as it come's off the Bed there will be a few spot's of Blood, then Nothing to follow, and the Deer will run far, Bed again and Expire. If you Have Coyote's in the area and the shot was taken at night, you can pretty much forget finding you Deer in one piece, as going after it will be the same as the Coyote's finding it. Chock this one up to YOU and not eh Bullet's fault as YOU made the Bad Shot and will have to live with it.
Im talking from experience and being on a-lot of Tracking Jobs over the years, I and another one of My Friends are amongst the Best Deer Trackers around our area and were called by Friends and Friends Friends when were needed. We have also found Deer when our NYS DEER SEARCH TEAM with DOG's have been called to find Deer, and did'nt, we did, weather they were edible or not. And were not afraid to tell you, Sorry, your Deer wont be found.
I've been on just about every Deer Tracking Job that has happened, Rain, Snow, Dry, Windy (when the Blood on leaves get's blown away and you have to put a PATH in your head to follow when there' no sign to follow)
So it's not what Bullet you use, it's the shot you made, the time and day you decided to shoot, the weather at the time and How You as a Hunter put your Tracking Skills to work. Because Hunting is more than just pulling the Trigger, after the shot is when the work really start's. Sure it's great to see your Deer fall after the shot, but if it runs and keeps going, you better be prepared to find it with no excuses. It's not the Bullet's Fault, YOU Pulled the Trigger, blame it on yourself and no one else if you dont find you Deer.
(BP)
(BP)
After the shot, especially if it run's into thick cover (LISTEN) to where it runs and is headed, mark and pinpoint that direction in your head and pick a Mark to pinpoint the exact location the Deer ran. The Deer will make a heck of a-lot of comotion as it runs off, many fail to LISTEN after the shot, they just LOOK.
If the shot is seen and it's a Lung Shot you will find your Deer, just Look. If it's a BAD Shot, Intestines, WAIT, do NOT go after the Deer. The Deer will often BED Down within 50-100yds and EXPIRE within 5 Hours. The Blood will be good at first and then peter off to drops, it will be Dark Blood. If you go after the Animal right away you will jump it from it's Bed and most likely Never Find it as it come's off the Bed there will be a few spot's of Blood, then Nothing to follow, and the Deer will run far, Bed again and Expire. If you Have Coyote's in the area and the shot was taken at night, you can pretty much forget finding you Deer in one piece, as going after it will be the same as the Coyote's finding it. Chock this one up to YOU and not eh Bullet's fault as YOU made the Bad Shot and will have to live with it.
Im talking from experience and being on a-lot of Tracking Jobs over the years, I and another one of My Friends are amongst the Best Deer Trackers around our area and were called by Friends and Friends Friends when were needed. We have also found Deer when our NYS DEER SEARCH TEAM with DOG's have been called to find Deer, and did'nt, we did, weather they were edible or not. And were not afraid to tell you, Sorry, your Deer wont be found.
I've been on just about every Deer Tracking Job that has happened, Rain, Snow, Dry, Windy (when the Blood on leaves get's blown away and you have to put a PATH in your head to follow when there' no sign to follow)
So it's not what Bullet you use, it's the shot you made, the time and day you decided to shoot, the weather at the time and How You as a Hunter put your Tracking Skills to work. Because Hunting is more than just pulling the Trigger, after the shot is when the work really start's. Sure it's great to see your Deer fall after the shot, but if it runs and keeps going, you better be prepared to find it with no excuses. It's not the Bullet's Fault, YOU Pulled the Trigger, blame it on yourself and no one else if you dont find you Deer.
(BP)
(BP)
12-05-2010, 04:18 PM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Posts: 2,976
I know........but I forgot to mention something. As I remembered seeing Sabotloader's Deer he just shot and all the FAT on it, I forgot to mention the FAT.
I live in the North and anywhere it get's COLD and you have Bad Winter's, Deer put on a Good Fat Reserve. A well placed bullet and a Deer full of a good Fat Reserve sometimes equals No Blood Trail. The Fat will Plug up the exit and entrance holes, and if you have no snow to track your deer, it (May) be tough to find if you dont see it drop in sight.
I've had it happen to me on double Lung Shot Deer. I've had Deer with 1" thick of Fat under the hide and on the inner body cavity. I've literally pulled hand fulls of Fat out of a Deer after field dressing it (You know the kind of Fat that get's on your Knife and wont come off, it's like butter when warm, but as soon as it hit's the Cold it hardens right up. So even with any bullet and a well placed shot, a Fatty Deer can be trouble when it come's time to find after the shot. And some of you may not believe this one. I've Hunted in the BRUTAL COLD, MINUS DEGREE's, I've shot Deer that as soon as the Blood starts to come out of them it freezes like a Rock and plugs the entrance and exit holes, hard to believe,,,,,,,it happens.
(BP)
(BP)
I live in the North and anywhere it get's COLD and you have Bad Winter's, Deer put on a Good Fat Reserve. A well placed bullet and a Deer full of a good Fat Reserve sometimes equals No Blood Trail. The Fat will Plug up the exit and entrance holes, and if you have no snow to track your deer, it (May) be tough to find if you dont see it drop in sight.
I've had it happen to me on double Lung Shot Deer. I've had Deer with 1" thick of Fat under the hide and on the inner body cavity. I've literally pulled hand fulls of Fat out of a Deer after field dressing it (You know the kind of Fat that get's on your Knife and wont come off, it's like butter when warm, but as soon as it hit's the Cold it hardens right up. So even with any bullet and a well placed shot, a Fatty Deer can be trouble when it come's time to find after the shot. And some of you may not believe this one. I've Hunted in the BRUTAL COLD, MINUS DEGREE's, I've shot Deer that as soon as the Blood starts to come out of them it freezes like a Rock and plugs the entrance and exit holes, hard to believe,,,,,,,it happens.
(BP)
(BP)
12-05-2010, 04:26 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
Good points BP, and I agree.
A double lung hit with any bullet is a dead deer, and should be found. I bowhunt alot, and I've seen some double lung hits that hardly bled at all....the blood fills in the chest cavity, and they don't leave much sign sometimes. Good tracking is a must. Good point about the fat too, that can happen for sure. The deer around here have alot of fat this year already, and we aren't in the real cold areas. Much more than in recent years. A couple deer I butchered last week had 2-3" of fat on them, I was amazed.
A double lung hit with any bullet is a dead deer, and should be found. I bowhunt alot, and I've seen some double lung hits that hardly bled at all....the blood fills in the chest cavity, and they don't leave much sign sometimes. Good tracking is a must. Good point about the fat too, that can happen for sure. The deer around here have alot of fat this year already, and we aren't in the real cold areas. Much more than in recent years. A couple deer I butchered last week had 2-3" of fat on them, I was amazed.
n them speer deep curls what grain do they come in and what dia: 451?
12-05-2010, 04:36 PM
#37
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
Ever wonder how the hunters in the 1700s and 1800s ever killed a deer with that small round ball? They put the bullet in the right place, that's how. There is absolutely no substitute for bullet placement.
12-05-2010, 04:43 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,081
Jay thats cool ur on here awesome,as i sit here reading your post the only thing comes to my mind is knowing you,that deer took that XTP.Hey I just started ML hunting but on my first experience,shot a really nice buck with the Hornady .430 240grain 44cal. XTP-HP bullet with supplied green sabot,and no blood trail at all.All i can say is NO MORE XTP 4 ME,if they work 4 others GREAT,but i cant risk it with the type of BOOK BUCKs we hunt.I am thinking in the last 5 years you took ? 4 BOOK BUCKs?
12-05-2010, 04:45 PM
#39
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 166
Hey Falcon, I use the one on the left in your picture. I get confused with T/C's new terms. Is is the sabot sleeve (long black) that comes with the Mags, or is short version. And is it the same as Hornady's green sabots?
D
D
12-05-2010, 04:48 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Posts: 2,976
When we choose to Hunt with a MLer, there should be no (Iffy) Shot, it should be 100% Guaranteed right on the money or You PASS. I know I've let a-lot of Deer walk because the shot was'nt a PERFECT one. Again and I know I said this befor, ALL My Deer shot with a MLer are either Heart Shot or Double Lung, and all My Friends I Hunt with will back me on this one.
And as Falcon said, there's No Substitute for Bullet Placement, no one pulled the Trigger but you, and you either sleep good at night or toss and turn wondering weather or not if you'll find your Deer in the Morning.
You have One Shot, Make it Count or Dont Shoot, Simple as that, and No Excuses.
(BP)