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Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

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Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

Old 03-04-2009, 03:59 AM
  #1  
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Default Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor


Hi All,

I'm new to this site and wanted to see has had good experiences with 150 grains of pyrodex and TC shockwave bullets. I bought a TC Encore Endeavor and shoot it about 15 times. The first time I shot it I was low and right, 3 times and I was in the bullseye at 50 yrds. Moved out to 75yrds and was 1" high. Next shot was way high and way left, I noticed the stock was loose so I brought it back to where I bought it from. They tightened the stock up, 2 full twists of the bolt. I went back to the range, first shot dead bull at 50 yrds. 1" high dead bull at 75 yrds. Went to 100 yards and was 1" at 1oo. All this time I was shooting 3 x 50 grain pyrodex pellets and I used 300 - 250 and 200 grain T/C ShockWave bullets. Each shoot a little different but once I set the scope for it the group is the same about 1.5" apart and 1" high at 100 yards. I did have some difficulty loading them but found this was after the barrel cooled down so I load it immediately after the shot and it loads easly. I live the simplicity of this gun. I have the T/C Hawken and Knight MK 85 SS and though the Knight is hole in hole I shot it much more and know it's broke in. I'm pretty sure I will do the same with this one just need more practice.

Anyhow I bought this gun to take advantage of magnum loads for my Iowa hunt. What I would like to know is what speed is a T/C Shockwave 200 grain bullet traveling and how much foot pounds of energy at 100 - 150 - 200 and 250 yards with 3 x 50 grain pyrodex pellets?

I can say there is a noticeable delay of hearing the impact at 100 yrds from a 300 grain to 250 and from 250 to 200. A 200 grain impact is almost immediate at 100 yrds.

BTW - I also had issues with the 300 grain Shockwave opening up. I shot a very buck 10 pointer with 110 grains of loose pyrodex powder and a 300 TC ShockWave at 50 yards. There was no blood, no fur and a hole clear though a 6" thick sapling behind where the deer was standing. I thought I missed after searching for an hour and nothing. I didn't give up and went back the nextday, found him 100 yrds from where I shot him laying between two blow downs, all I saw was horns sticking up.

I really want to shoot the 200 grain ShockWave bullets, I think they would be in comparison to a 30-06 and should defiantly put the knock down on them as long as they open up. But I have no information on these bullets, there isn’t very much to go by because I can’t find anything online about them. I will try them on a watermelon with in the next few weeks and let everyone know what it did to it. I think this is a good test, this is very soft and if it opens on it, a broad side shot should be fine. After that I will try it on a frozen turkey for a shoulder shot. I’ll keep you posted.

I hope to hear from you, thanks.

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Old 03-04-2009, 04:40 AM
  #2  
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

ORIGINAL: 1eyebuck


Hi All,

I'm new to this site and wanted to see has had good experiences with 150 grains of pyrodex and TC shockwave bullets. I bought a TC Encore Endeavor and shoot it about 15 times. The first time I shot it I was low and right, 3 times and I was in the bullseye at 50 yrds. Moved out to 75yrds and was 1" high. Next shot was way high and way left, I noticed the stock was loose so I brought it back to where I bought it from. They tightened the stock up, 2 full twists of the bolt. I went back to the range, first shot dead bull at 50 yrds. 1" high dead bull at 75 yrds. Went to 100 yards and was 1" at 1oo. All this time I was shooting 3 x 50 grain pyrodex pellets and I used 300 - 250 and 200 grain T/C ShockWave bullets. Each shoot a little different but once I set the scope for it the group is the same about 1.5" apart and 1" high at 100 yards. I did have some difficulty loading them but found this was after the barrel cooled down so I load it immediately after the shot and it loads easly. I live the simplicity of this gun. I have the T/C Hawken and Knight MK 85 SS and though the Knight is hole in hole I shot it much more and know it's broke in. I'm pretty sure I will do the same with this one just need more practice.

Anyhow I bought this gun to take advantage of magnum loads for my Iowa hunt. What I would like to know is what speed is a T/C Shockwave 200 grain bullet traveling and how much foot pounds of energy at 100 - 150 - 200 and 250 yards with 3 x 50 grain pyrodex pellets?

I can say there is a noticeable delay of hearing the impact at 100 yrds from a 300 grain to 250 and from 250 to 200. A 200 grain impact is almost immediate at 100 yrds.

BTW - I also had issues with the 300 grain Shockwave opening up. I shot a very buck 10 pointer with 110 grains of loose pyrodex powder and a 300 TC ShockWave at 50 yards. There was no blood, no fur and a hole clear though a 6" thick sapling behind where the deer was standing. I thought I missed after searching for an hour and nothing. I didn't give up and went back the nextday, found him 100 yrds from where I shot him laying between two blow downs, all I saw was horns sticking up.

I really want to shoot the 200 grain ShockWave bullets, I think they would be in comparison to a 30-06 and should defiantly put the knock down on them as long as they open up. But I have no information on these bullets, there isn’t very much to go by because I can’t find anything online about them. I will try them on a watermelon with in the next few weeks and let everyone know what it did to it. I think this is a good test, this is very soft and if it opens on it, a broad side shot should be fine. After that I will try it on a frozen turkey for a shoulder shot. I’ll keep you posted.

I hope to hear from you, thanks.
I have a friend who shot the 250g SW this year out of his Triumph with 150g of 777 and he shot 3 deer with it. One of the bullets he found under the hide in the hind quarter, since it was a quartering to shot, he said the bullet was perfect and could be shot again if it had the little plastic tip on it. What you experienced is common with this bullet, very, very accurate bullet no doubt, but not opening up is a complaint---therefore "long blood trails or no blood trails".

I toldmy friendto go to Barnes TMZ or Barnes T-EZ 250g, which is what Irecommend you do. Sight in 3" high at 100. I would also switch powders to Blackhorn 209, shoot 120g or whatever gives best accuracy in your gun, maybe that is 110g. BHdoes NOT leave a crud ring in your gun and is easier to shoot. It is harder on Breech plugs however. I know the Pro Hunter and Encores like the hot loads.
You will be within 3" from 0 to 200 yards if you sight-in 3" at 100. Limit your shots to under 200 or practice to 250. I also know a lot of guys hunt in the midwest with Savages and they use 300g Barnes Origonals, which have aballistic Coeffieincet of .292, however most agree that .250, is the better number, that is exactly the BC of the 300g SW. So that also is a good bullet for long range shooting, again 3" high at 100. My experience is that 300g bullets shoot thru and you loose only 1" at 200 yards using them, so I always shoot 300 in all my guns. The recoild is more, butmost of the time it is Boom Flop with 300gbullets hit in the bread basket anywhere.

Bullets are what cause a lot of "wars" of words on many forums. Please accept these words are only 1 man'swisdomfrom reading a lot, not having shot them in a hunting situation. Oh and arethe SW accurate in my Savage, you bet, this was at 92.5 yards with 44g of 5744 and supplied SW sabot:



did I shoot the SW at game? Nope, why? Cause I read a lot of the same thing happeing to guys just like you.

Another great bullet is the 275g or 250g Parker Ballistic Extreme, that shot well in my Savage also, but I had to switch sabots. That is another great long range bullet. So you got 3 choices:
Barnes TMZ or T-EZ (flat base is better one)
Barnes Origonal (a bit too hard for Whitetail, but good on long range)
Parker Ballistic Extreme (just right for Whitetail, fragments on bone shots, but still dead right there)


Chap
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Old 03-04-2009, 05:29 AM
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

I really want to stay with 3 x 50 pyrodex and the 2 grain ShockWave because I already invested allot of money in it and they are very accurate. I'm kinda thinking they aren't opening up with a lesser charge by design, but I wont know until I visit the range again with a watermelon and frozen turkey. Thank you for you feedback.

How do you post those pictures, I would like to add my target

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Old 03-04-2009, 05:33 AM
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

200 grain sorry.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:13 AM
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

Use your shockwave for practice and to get your scope close. Switch to a better hunting bullet of similar ballistic for the hunt. You will only need to shoot a few shots at paper with the good bullet to get it sighted in for hunting. You can play with the shockwave all summer shootin' at watermelon, and water jug, and ice block. Chap speak the truth about the inadequacy of the shockwave.
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:01 AM
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

There is one bullet I know of that will match the accuracy of the SW at long range the construction is a bit different and I have not tried them on game yet but just started shooting them on the range, I am speaking of the new FTX; I have shot them out to 250 yds and so far am quite happy with the accuracy. If you look back at past posts you will find a couple on the FTX in one of them I split the bullet to check the construction in the other I shot a couple of targets off the bench to check accuracy. When I can get away I will be going boar hunting and see how they do on game. Lee
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:35 AM
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

Well, like the other guys said. Switch to a different bullet for hunting. Even the Hornady XTP is a good deer bullet. It may shed its velocity a bit quicker than the shockwaves but their affect on game is good. Barnes are good too but the cost is up there.
But I guess that anyone who can spend the $ to shoot buy a turkey to shoot at can afford them.... joking of course.
But really, save the turkey, and the watermelon and buy different bullets. Why waste a perfectly good meal and dessert.
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Old 03-04-2009, 01:52 PM
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

Hornady makes the T/C Shockwave. The Hornady SST is the same bullet and half the price. I just went through the same thing as you and this is what I did thanks to all the help from folks on this site:
I shot off ALL my T/C SWs and SSTs. I bought 24 Barnes TMZs for hunting.Then I bought 200 .45cal bullets,240grain (.452) and 200 generic sabots. This is what I use for paper punching. It will take me less than 5 shots to zero the Barnes if its needed . The Barnes are 100% copper except for the polymer tip. I shot 4 rounds with the Barnes at 100yds and I thought I missed the paper two out of4 shots. When I got to my target, the two flyers I thought I had ended up being the best group I have shot with my ML so far. One nice shamrock 1 1/4" top right of the bull. The other shotwas in the bull about 1/4" high and right from dead center. I use a Williams Peep....not bad huh? I also use the BH209. I love it. My gun loves it. At the range, I like to shoot cheap. T7 FFFg powder and generic .45s and sabots. I am going to start casting my own lead ones as soon as I get a cast. I started off by using the pellets. After a lot of reading and questioning, I learned that a lot of powder is wasted in the barrel because it doesnt ignite. It just gets blown out the bore. I worked my BH load up to 115gr. I think it may be a little hot but I havent dropped it down yet. I have a T/C Omega. Just my 2 pennies.
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor

I think I found the reason for the bullets not expanding. Going through my notes, when I bought my Knight MK-85 they recommended 110 grains of pyrodex and I used 90 becauseI wasshooting the same bullet out of my hawken. I was punching hole in hole at 100 with a Williams peep sight. When I took it out for deer I shot at 5 that week and didn't get a single one. I did find hair and I was so mad I actually through the gun on the ground!!! Can you imagine, a $700.00 gun??? Yep that's me, I don't like to wound anything.... Well the next week I went back to the drawing board trying to figure out what the heck is going on. Feeling like I never want to hunt with a muzzle loader again. I called Knight and they asked about my powder charge. I told them I was using 90 grains of pyrodex. They asked that I bump up the charge to 110 as recommended in the literature the sent with the gun and then call them if I had any further issues. I did and had the same group. The next year "hesitantly" I had an opportunity at a very nice 8 pointer. I had that what if in my head... I put the peep right behind his shoulder and squeezed the trigger with uncertainty. Boom the gun went of and after the cloud of smoke cleared I thought OMG again it happened again! I started focusing in on a brown spot and said wait there he is!!! Wow he went right down and I thought maybe that was just a freak. The next week was doe days and I shot at a doe, she went about 30 feet. A boost of confidence!!!! Every deer since then I got with little to no tracking. So what I'm going to do is continue with the recommended 3 x 50 pyrodex and see what happens. The only down side is I have to wait until next year to find out. But I look at it this way, it gives me the time I need to get to know my gun in any condition and circumstance. I really appreciate everyone’s feed back and I will keep you posted. If anyone still wishes to share their experiences please do so I really like taking about these things.
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor


ORIGINAL: ronlaughlin

Use your shockwave for practice and to get your scope close. Switch to a better hunting bullet of similar ballistic for the hunt. You will only need to shoot a few shots at paper with the good bullet to get it sighted in for hunting. You can play with the shockwave all summer shootin' at watermelon, and water jug, and ice block. Chap speak the truth about the inadequacy of the shockwave.
I've shot dozens of deer with the 200SW, it has no problem. I hear lots of people saying they heard other people have problems, but there are very few first-hand reports of it. Sounds like the rumor mill to me.

You can look back on this board to last fall, you'll find a lot of detailed reports on bullet performance. You'll find a ton of reports where a SW did just what it is supposed to, and a couple where it did not.

I've taken deer from 20 to 338 yards with the 200SW over just 110gr 777, MV of 2040 fps, the majority are bang-flops and none ran a significant distance out of the several dozen I have shot.

I do my part to put the bullet in the right place and it has always kept up its part. If anything, the SW opens a little TOO easily as I've seen jacket separation right before exiting the far side skin as far out at 200 yds.

150gr pyrodex will get you 2100-2200fps depending on the gun.
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