gleason.chapman

You all didn't know you jumped into my favorite subject did ya? Terminal ballistics. Here is more to chew on and think about. large meplat bullet (cast bullets with large frontal diameter), the big names in that bullet is Sam Fadala and his son, who write the Hornady BP Manual. Think about his:

Sam wrote an article titled this
Smackdown Large Meplat bullets for 45-70
in Guns and Ammo a year or so ago. The 45/70 bullet are basically what we are shooting in MLers.
The ballistics of the 45/70 are about the same as MLers 1500 to 2000 fps for inlines. So read 45/70 thinking and apply the same logic. Good 45/70 bullets are good MLer bullets.

Chap

gleason.chapman

Now lets take a look at Nosler Partions, and why Jim Shockey shoots them, while we are on the bullet subject.
Chap

spaniel

I appreciate your experience but the 300gr bullet is not the 200gr bullet. I shot a deer last season too with the 300gr (bonded) SW, and saw little expansion which did not surprise me from a bonded bullet hitting no bone.

The 200SW is a completely different animal.

Does this look like lack of expansion to you? Top left bullet impacted at 80 yds, top right bullet at 209 yds:

spaniel

It's nice that Shockey shoots them. I'm sure he is well paid to make that known, which IMO makes his input invalid in terms of interpreting performace (though I'm sure they work well).

Theory and stuff you look up on the internet is nice, but the internet is full of information and the fact it is there doesn't make it reliable or true; I value the opinion of people sharing real experiences a lot higher. Don't you think it would be fair to try the bullet ONCE before you need to state as fact its supposed lack of performance in the face of many 1st-hand reports of good performance? New people here may be assuming from your definitive judgement that you've tried the bullet. That's typically why people come to boards, they want to hear what people have tried.

I hear definitively that Spanish muzzleloaders are known for blowing up too, yet the people who really own them tell another story...lots of great luck with the Genesis, Accuras out there and no one posts saying theirs blew up yet the rumor mill keeps feeding the fire.

gleason.chapman

I believe your directing your comments to me Spaniel, since I did the post on Jim Shockey. Your correct he is paid by Nosler bullets to promote those. However, long before he got paid by Nosler he was using Nosler partitions. Now I know he use to shoot Knight and use to have a big Knight on his rifle so it was visible in all picture, now it is TC, since he is paid better I presume. I respect Jim Shockey for his hunting ability, you know the deal on him, just in case you don't his mySpace page says this: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid =157716167

About me:
Jim has been an award winning outdoor writer, wildlife photographer..videographer, wilderness guide and outfitter for the last two decades. He has exclusive guiding territories on world-renowned Vancouver Island, British Columbia, in the wilds of the Yukon Territory, in the Sonoran Desert of Old Mexico and also in the heart of big whitetail buck country in Saskatchewan. Jim’s personal hunting experiences include travel to the remotest, wildest and most beautiful reaches of North America. He has traveled for weeks by dogsled with the Inuit in the high arctic and climbed the Sierra Madres of Mexico looking for Coues deer. He’s spiritually “smudged” with the Beaver Cree and traveled the water roads of the Northwest Territories searching for caribou with the Dene first nations people. Jim has learned his tracking skills from the Bushmen of the Kalahari Desert in Namibia, learned to live off the land from the Aboriginal People in the Australian Outback and has “faced his lion” with the proud Masai warriors in Tanzania. During the course of his adventures, he has taken numerous muzzleloading world records, including, Stone’s sheep, bison, Roosevelt elk, Shirus moose, muskox, walrus, white-bearded wildebeest, Grant’s gazelle, steenbok and many more. He is the first and only hunter in the world to complete the “NORTH AMERICAN SUPER SLAM” and “ULTIMATE SLAM” using only a muzzleloader. Jim has published more than 1,000 adventure articles for virtually all the largest outdoor magazines, produces videos and hosts his own adventure television show on the Outdoor Channel. Jim was formerly an All-American swimmer in university (combined Biology Psychology major) and then played on the National waterpolo team for six years. Jim participated in both the 1978 and 1982 world championships but did not attend the 1980 Olympics because of the international boycott against Russia. Jim is considered to be one of the world’s foremost experts on the Ethnocentric Folk Art forms from Western Canada. Jim dealt in and still deals in art and antiques, and his collections have appeared several times in Country Living magazine and Century Home magazine. Jim is head over heels in love with and married to his best friend Louise (a former actress), since the early 1980’s. They have two wonderful children.

So I think he is in a different league than most people on here and certainly his experience with Noslers in Africa and doing the Ultimate Slam puts him in the OK to speak about them, note one thing, his is NOT using SWs, event though heis sponsored by TC.

Also for my experience with Nosler, as you can see above I posted one of my results on a 6 pt buck. I have shot them for 2 years,I like them. I do rank them equivalent to the Barnes MZ and Barnes 45843 Flat Nose. The MZ I have used on game. I don't have a picture of a kill with one, because I never have found a bullet from one, the alway shoot thru, even on oblique shots.
Chap

gleason.chapman

You make me sound like I am the holder of the gospel of bullets, I am not, nor do I claim to be. This is my favorite topic, and I do read alot about it and I state me opinion about it, but I am not the holder of all truth on bullet performance. I am one voice in the MLer wilderness. In my initial post on this topic I stated this:

Please accept these words are only 1 man'swisdomfrom reading a lot, not having shot them in a hunting situation.

I didn't restate that on all posts on Noslers, Barnes, etc, but most know me on here and know my "bend on things" especially bullets.

Most of the time there is someone who is a defender of a bullet and they get offended that theirfavorite bullet has got a bit of a tarnished reputation. Frontrier Gander, was the big Powerbelt defender (calls himself MountainDevil now), 2 years ago in the Powerbelt wars. He did his homework by taking PBs and finding the powder charge at where they start to fragment (80g). I have shot PB. I hate them, because there is no WARNING label on them that says "do not shoot over 80g of 777", PB were designed to shoot in low velocity inline MLers and is basically replacing the conical of your grandfather's sidelock (that statement will push the buttons of the PB fans, but guess what,I know itis true based on my shooting them for 4 years and my reading of posts on here).

You have had good experience with SW, amen for that. I think it is because your shooting the 200g. That weightappear to hold together much better than the 250. The SW wasdesigned for long range shooting, not 30to 50 yard shooting, where alotof guys back east in woodlots are shooting them and having some "issues". My suggestion is to shoot a different bullet, don't stick with something you knwo doesn't work. It is pretty clear, I am not a PBfan, nor am I a SW fan,and my logic is clear, there are issues with those bullets, as evidence by the posts people have placed on this forum. I didn't PM them to post their negative results, they did it of their own free will.
Chap

1eyebuck

Well I proved my theory right... I'm good to go!!!! Thanks to all that responded. I would like to ask one more thing which was my original question.

What are the ballistics for a 200 grain T/C ShockWave using 3 50 grain pyrodex pellets? Looking forward to the answer...

SWThomas

When was that Q&A conducted?

gleason.chapman

Remember google is your best friend on the computer:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GZAZ_enUS226US226&ei=F JuxSZKsGaGbtweIyqm7Bw&sa=X&oi=spell&re snum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=200g+Shockwave +Ballistic+Coefficient&spell=1


They say about .200 for the BC, I know the 300g SW is .250, so a lot less for the 200g. 100g Pyrodex is about1900 fps, so 150g is going to be about 2100. You can drop those values into a ballistic program such as this:

http://www.sav10ml.com/pages/load_data/traj_basic_dat.html

to get bullet drop. So lets sight in 3" high at 100, that is a zero of about 165 yards, lets see what that gives us. Please note you have 800 fpe or higher all the way to 200 yards, which is good, when your shooting 2100 fps, most guns with short barrels can't do this.
Chap

gleason.chapman

I know somebody is gonna push back on me regarding the 2100 for 3 50 pellets of pyrodex, so lets drop in 2000 fps and look at that. You can see the mid point of the trajectory (100 yards again) increase from 3.1" to 3.5" so now you have to sight in 3.5" high at 100. Most folks consider this OUT of whitetail parameter, but OK for elk. Most consider 3" high at 100 good, and so your shooting thru a 6" pipe from 0 to about 185 yards. You would miss at a low heart shot aiming right on with this load at 200, since your 4.8" low at 200.
Chap