Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
03-04-2009, 04:31 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
My opinion of shockwave is formed from the experience i had last hunting season. I was able to view 5 doe killed with a 300g sst. This showed me that there are better game bullets than the sst/shockwave. One of those deer came quite close to being lion food instead of ronnie food, but we were stubborn and tagged it. Was also able to see what a 300g nosler did to 2 doe. There is a great difference in the tissue damage done by the sst/shockwave compared to the damage done by the nosler; very very much better is the nosler. I was also quite surprised at the lack of penetration exhibited by one of the sst after it went through the first shoulder. I would have expected more from a 300g bullet. It didn't even make it beyond the first lung.
So here you have a first hand report of the so so results of 300g sst on doe. I appreciate your concern that i might be passing on hear say, but that is not the case here.
I see no reason to use them anymore. They are not the most accurate, nor the least expensive, nor the most damaging bullet. Also, they don't fly any better than other available bullets.
Next season i will experiment further with bullets on doe, but the sst/shockwave will not be included in these tests.
So here you have a first hand report of the so so results of 300g sst on doe. I appreciate your concern that i might be passing on hear say, but that is not the case here.
I see no reason to use them anymore. They are not the most accurate, nor the least expensive, nor the most damaging bullet. Also, they don't fly any better than other available bullets.
Next season i will experiment further with bullets on doe, but the sst/shockwave will not be included in these tests.
03-04-2009, 05:33 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Camp Lejeune, NC
Posts: 3,869
RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
ORIGINAL: 1eyebuck
I really want to stay with 3 x 50 pyrodex and the 2 grain ShockWave because I already invested allot of money in it and they are very accurate. I'm kinda thinking they aren't opening up with a lesser charge by design, but I wont know until I visit the range again with a watermelon and frozen turkey. Thank you for you feedback.
How do you post those pictures, I would like to add my target
I really want to stay with 3 x 50 pyrodex and the 2 grain ShockWave because I already invested allot of money in it and they are very accurate. I'm kinda thinking they aren't opening up with a lesser charge by design, but I wont know until I visit the range again with a watermelon and frozen turkey. Thank you for you feedback.
How do you post those pictures, I would like to add my target
Chap does speak the truth about the Barnes Bullets. The 290g T-EZ shoots great out of my Endeavor with 120 volumetric grains of BH209. And these bullets will expand and will retain their weight.
Also, don't just settle on Pyrodex pellets because you think they're convenient. A whole lot of people have been seeing outstanding results with Blackhorn 209. It's non-corrosive, non-hygroscopic, no swabbing between shots... None of which can be said about Pyrodex or 777. Yes, it's loose, but dealing with loose powder isn't as hard as some people make it out to be. You save maybe 5 seconds during loading by using pellets instead of loose. Hell, I'd be willing to wager a $10 spot that I could outload you with my BH209 loose and you with pellets.
03-04-2009, 07:12 PM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
We had a little contest here last year because we could not agree on how much faster or not pellets were; the 3 places we gave were all won by guys using loose and quick loaders. So much for the pellets they are only faster for some one that does not have the right quick loaders.
I have used most of the bullets available, all of them killed dear for me, I made my own 240gr lead hollow points for years. While they will all take deer I think the most effective bullet for deer is the 250gr Gold Dot and the 260 gr Nosler partition bullet every deer I have shot with them has been a bang flop. I have used the 250 gr SW a number of times and while it don't give me bang flops it is a most excellent long range bullet and I have not had to track any deer shot with it over 100yds. I rarely get bang flops with lead bullets or XTP's either in fact a 54 cal with PRB a long barrel and 120 or 130 gr of RS is the only other gun I constantly get bang flops with. Lee
I have used most of the bullets available, all of them killed dear for me, I made my own 240gr lead hollow points for years. While they will all take deer I think the most effective bullet for deer is the 250gr Gold Dot and the 260 gr Nosler partition bullet every deer I have shot with them has been a bang flop. I have used the 250 gr SW a number of times and while it don't give me bang flops it is a most excellent long range bullet and I have not had to track any deer shot with it over 100yds. I rarely get bang flops with lead bullets or XTP's either in fact a 54 cal with PRB a long barrel and 120 or 130 gr of RS is the only other gun I constantly get bang flops with. Lee
03-05-2009, 03:12 AM
#14
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: My Range in Central NY
Posts: 320
RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
ORIGINAL: 1eyebuck
I really want to stay with 3 x 50 pyrodex and the 2 grain ShockWave because I already invested allot of money in it and they are very accurate. I'm kinda thinking they aren't opening up with a lesser charge by design, but I wont know until I visit the range again with a watermelon and frozen turkey. Thank you for you feedback.
How do you post those pictures, I would like to add my target
I really want to stay with 3 x 50 pyrodex and the 2 grain ShockWave because I already invested allot of money in it and they are very accurate. I'm kinda thinking they aren't opening up with a lesser charge by design, but I wont know until I visit the range again with a watermelon and frozen turkey. Thank you for you feedback.
How do you post those pictures, I would like to add my target
but you have asked for the best Black Powder load!!!None of the Substitutes then Qualify for you question/topic in any way! Your 3 Pellet load obviously isn't a Black powder load at all!
: eek: Now for an off topic answer to your Question, that you did not ask.
I would only use BH209 in your rifle, out of my Knight T-bolt 85 grains Volume, crony's @ 1500+- FPS with 330 grain Hard Cast LFN is a Harvester short black Sabot. If you want Long Range then up the charge to 100Gr, that crony's 1800 FPS out of a 22" barreled T-Bolt.
Ken
03-05-2009, 03:46 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
ORIGINAL: lemoyne
While they will all take deer I think the most effective bullet for deer is the 250gr Gold Dot and the 260 gr Nosler partition bullet every deer I have shot with them has been a bang flop. Lee
While they will all take deer I think the most effective bullet for deer is the 250gr Gold Dot and the 260 gr Nosler partition bullet every deer I have shot with them has been a bang flop. Lee
And they do this when they hit game. This was shot brisket at a 6point walking toward me at 40 yards, it went about 20 yards. The bullet was under the hide in the off hind quarter, shot length-wise thru the deer. Perfect expansion, near 100% weight retention, only reason it didn't shoot thru that the shot was direct frontal, so 40" inches of deer it penetrated. Under 150-170 yards the Nosler is an excellent ML bullet in guns that shoot them well.
Chap
03-05-2009, 03:52 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
ORIGINAL: lemoyne
We had a little contest here last year because we could not agree on how much faster or not pellets were; the 3 places we gave were all won by guys using loose and quick loaders. So much for the pellets they are only faster for some one that does not have the right quick loaders.
I have used most of the bullets available, all of them killed dear for me, I made my own 240gr lead hollow points for years. While they will all take deer I think the most effective bullet for deer is the 250gr Gold Dot and the 260 gr Nosler partition bullet every deer I have shot with them has been a bang flop. I have used the 250 gr SW a number of times and while it don't give me bang flops it is a most excellent long range bullet and I have not had to track any deer shot with it over 100yds. I rarely get bang flops with lead bullets or XTP's either in fact a 54 cal with PRB a long barrel and 120 or 130 gr of RS is the only other gun I constantly get bang flops with. Lee
We had a little contest here last year because we could not agree on how much faster or not pellets were; the 3 places we gave were all won by guys using loose and quick loaders. So much for the pellets they are only faster for some one that does not have the right quick loaders.
I have used most of the bullets available, all of them killed dear for me, I made my own 240gr lead hollow points for years. While they will all take deer I think the most effective bullet for deer is the 250gr Gold Dot and the 260 gr Nosler partition bullet every deer I have shot with them has been a bang flop. I have used the 250 gr SW a number of times and while it don't give me bang flops it is a most excellent long range bullet and I have not had to track any deer shot with it over 100yds. I rarely get bang flops with lead bullets or XTP's either in fact a 54 cal with PRB a long barrel and 120 or 130 gr of RS is the only other gun I constantly get bang flops with. Lee
Chap
03-05-2009, 04:00 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
ORIGINAL: 1eyebuck
Hi All,
I'm new to this site and wanted to see has had good experiences with 150 grains of pyrodex and TC shockwave bullets. I bought a TC Encore Endeavor and shoot it about 15 times. The first time I shot it I was low and right, 3 times and I was in the bullseye at 50 yrds. Moved out to 75yrds and was 1" high. Next shot was way high and way left, I noticed the stock was loose so I brought it back to where I bought it from. They tightened the stock up, 2 full twists of the bolt. I went back to the range, first shot dead bull at 50 yrds. 1" high dead bull at 75 yrds. Went to 100 yards and was 1" at 1oo. All this time I was shooting 3 x 50 grain pyrodex pellets and I used 300 - 250 and 200 grain T/C ShockWave bullets. Each shoot a little different but once I set the scope for it the group is the same about 1.5" apart and 1" high at 100 yards. I did have some difficulty loading them but found this was after the barrel cooled down so I load it immediately after the shot and it loads easly. I live the simplicity of this gun. I have the T/C Hawken and Knight MK 85 SS and though the Knight is hole in hole I shot it much more and know it's broke in. I'm pretty sure I will do the same with this one just need more practice.
Anyhow I bought this gun to take advantage of magnum loads for my Iowa hunt. What I would like to know is what speed is a T/C Shockwave 200 grain bullet traveling and how much foot pounds of energy at 100 - 150 - 200 and 250 yards with 3 x 50 grain pyrodex pellets?
I can say there is a noticeable delay of hearing the impact at 100 yrds from a 300 grain to 250 and from 250 to 200. A 200 grain impact is almost immediate at 100 yrds.
BTW - I also had issues with the 300 grain Shockwave opening up. I shot a very buck 10 pointer with 110 grains of loose pyrodex powder and a 300 TC ShockWave at 50 yards. There was no blood, no fur and a hole clear though a 6" thick sapling behind where the deer was standing. I thought I missed after searching for an hour and nothing. I didn't give up and went back the nextday, found him 100 yrds from where I shot him laying between two blow downs, all I saw was horns sticking up.
I really want to shoot the 200 grain ShockWave bullets, I think they would be in comparison to a 30-06 and should defiantly put the knock down on them as long as they open up. But I have no information on these bullets, there isn’t very much to go by because I can’t find anything online about them. I will try them on a watermelon with in the next few weeks and let everyone know what it did to it. I think this is a good test, this is very soft and if it opens on it, a broad side shot should be fine. After that I will try it on a frozen turkey for a shoulder shot. I’ll keep you posted.
I hope to hear from you, thanks.
Hi All,
I'm new to this site and wanted to see has had good experiences with 150 grains of pyrodex and TC shockwave bullets. I bought a TC Encore Endeavor and shoot it about 15 times. The first time I shot it I was low and right, 3 times and I was in the bullseye at 50 yrds. Moved out to 75yrds and was 1" high. Next shot was way high and way left, I noticed the stock was loose so I brought it back to where I bought it from. They tightened the stock up, 2 full twists of the bolt. I went back to the range, first shot dead bull at 50 yrds. 1" high dead bull at 75 yrds. Went to 100 yards and was 1" at 1oo. All this time I was shooting 3 x 50 grain pyrodex pellets and I used 300 - 250 and 200 grain T/C ShockWave bullets. Each shoot a little different but once I set the scope for it the group is the same about 1.5" apart and 1" high at 100 yards. I did have some difficulty loading them but found this was after the barrel cooled down so I load it immediately after the shot and it loads easly. I live the simplicity of this gun. I have the T/C Hawken and Knight MK 85 SS and though the Knight is hole in hole I shot it much more and know it's broke in. I'm pretty sure I will do the same with this one just need more practice.
Anyhow I bought this gun to take advantage of magnum loads for my Iowa hunt. What I would like to know is what speed is a T/C Shockwave 200 grain bullet traveling and how much foot pounds of energy at 100 - 150 - 200 and 250 yards with 3 x 50 grain pyrodex pellets?
I can say there is a noticeable delay of hearing the impact at 100 yrds from a 300 grain to 250 and from 250 to 200. A 200 grain impact is almost immediate at 100 yrds.
BTW - I also had issues with the 300 grain Shockwave opening up. I shot a very buck 10 pointer with 110 grains of loose pyrodex powder and a 300 TC ShockWave at 50 yards. There was no blood, no fur and a hole clear though a 6" thick sapling behind where the deer was standing. I thought I missed after searching for an hour and nothing. I didn't give up and went back the nextday, found him 100 yrds from where I shot him laying between two blow downs, all I saw was horns sticking up.
I really want to shoot the 200 grain ShockWave bullets, I think they would be in comparison to a 30-06 and should defiantly put the knock down on them as long as they open up. But I have no information on these bullets, there isn’t very much to go by because I can’t find anything online about them. I will try them on a watermelon with in the next few weeks and let everyone know what it did to it. I think this is a good test, this is very soft and if it opens on it, a broad side shot should be fine. After that I will try it on a frozen turkey for a shoulder shot. I’ll keep you posted.
I hope to hear from you, thanks.
and read the theory on bullet construction and why some bullets (SW) are designed for long range and some are designed for short range. Some are "balanced bullets", some are fragmenting bullets, some are hard cast bullets. Some are large meplat, so are ballistic tip. Why? This book explains it. I have read it 3x and I still pick it up and read the chapters again and again. Bryce Towsley wrote the MLing bullet chapter, that is one reason I like to quote him. Buy it here:
http://www.ramworks.net/estore.html
Bryce Towsley says this about bullets:
Chap
03-05-2009, 04:11 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Best black powder load for long range with the Endeavor
Bryce's favorite MLer bullet. One way to arrive at truth in hunting, find and expert, read all his works so you learn to think like him. Choose what he chose. I've studied Bryce and Jim Shockey, both of whom I respect. I know why they chose what they did.
Chap
Chap
