Now that I've had time to think about it, I think for a first muzzleloader, this might be a good start. I don't think I can justify to myself (or my wife) a $400 rifle plus a $250 scope. Maybe in a few years but probably not now. Plus $100 bucks for a muzzleloader is an outstanding deal

Exactly what I'm thinking. I love my Marlin as it shoots amazingly and I didn't pay that much for it either. I paid $150 for it used. However, at $100 for a muzzle loader that gets good reviews it's hard to pass up. Especially if you are just starting out it should be a good way to see if you like it or not. That's why I bought the Marlin that was cheap so I could see if I liked it or not. Turns out I love it and love that gun. Even for people like me that already have one $100 is a great deal. I figure I can switch up between the two and less wear and tear on each of them since I will have 2 to switch between.

This one also seems to be getting pretty good reviews and it's a awesome price for what seems to be a nice muzzle loader.

I also am not a fan of Leupold scopes and would not even consider buying one stand alone new. I do have 2 of them, one is the compact ss 3x9 which just does not gather/make use of light in the wee hours of the morning or evening. In other word it is useless till sun rise and after sun set andsome times even really cloudy days, our season allows a half hour before and after sun rise and set.

Second one is a varX 3. Placed in on a Ruger 77 243 cal.shot it a dozen times or so then placed it in the gun safe. about 6 months latter I got it out to try some new hand loads and it would not adjust point of aim.
Sent it back and no questions asked they say it is fixed. Haven't put it on any thing yet to see.

Best scope I own for the dollar is a Weaver K4. I paid $5.00 for it at a yard sale, placed it on my T/C plains rifle on 1987, has had thousands of rounds go off under it and has never been touched since the first sight in.

Any way check here for a used scope to save somemoney
http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/814usedscopes.htm
and remember many have a life time warrenty evenLEUPOLD.

Al

I would say the TC Triumph with out a doubt, I have 17 now and have had many in the past and worked on them for other people when I had the shop.
The Triumph is the easy to clean, simple with few parts and not much if any blowbackevery one I have handled has had a good to excellant trigger, and they seem to have a preferance for certain loads.
I am posting a target, it is the best target I have ever shot at 100yds, it was shot at Cleborn county shooting club. I have a .270 and a 6mm6 and a 223 varmit rifles and have never matched this target with any of them.
This is not my normal group but most of the time I known that I have not done my best I am over 70 and dont see and shoot as good and consistantly as I did when I was shooting compitition. I often wonder what the gun would do if it was shot with out any human error.
The load was a 250gr Shock Wave with a short black Harvester sabot and a 120gr Blackhorn. It has a Nikon Omega scope on it.
To put things in perspective my average group with this load is .78 and when conditions are bad or I goof a bit it often goes up to 1.25 for a group.
I just shot one of those 1.25 groups day before yesterday the load I shot the first shot with had been in the gun for 3 weeks hunting and it went right where it should but the next one I knew was low when the gun went off. Lee

I just read on the MM forum that there are some Walmart sell out there Triumphs at 275 dollars [they usually sell out there Muzzle loaders at the end of the hunting season. I will have to check and see if that's true here. Lee

IMO & experience Leupold is as solidly built as a scope can get, and the brightest scopes Ive owned. Ive owned two varix 1s ,one varix 2, three varix 3s, and a compact 2X. No problems with any of them, and all were well worth the $ I paid. Other good glass Ive owned was a Burris shortmag 4X, bushnell 3200(greatscope for the $!), sightron S1( best cheap scope you can buy), and I currently have a zeiss conquest on my Savage 10ML.

For an entry level muzzleloader I would pick an older stock model, knight bolt action. Which can be found all over the net ,new in box, for as liitle as 200$ wich is a steal. Knight has every bit as good quality as TC and the triggers are very good and fully adjustable. Knights are made like a good CF rifle and TCs, although very well made, seem to made more like a shotgun. Sure the bolt gun designs are a little harder to clean than the newer syle break opens, but they shoot much better IMO.

BTW, start w/ shockwave or SST bullets and MMP sabots. They have been the most accurate for me, and the 250gr are devastating on deer!

If you want to use Blackhorn powder get a TC, some of the new Knights and most of the old ones have hang fire issues with BH and none of the other powders are on the same page when it comes to shooting with out wiping or for accuracy. Lee

For Lee

Wow, now that is beautiful shooting with a stock rifle, my hat off to you. Chap