But then again...The tally of Dead Deer and Hogs,and personal experience(Wisdom), tells an accurate story


.

I like the 250gr Superglide unbondedshockwaves in my Omega.I am getting 1.5 groups at 100 yards. I know I can do better using powder. (100gr) The bullet performance on deer is exception with both IMO.I took my 295gr HPpowerbelts and tossed them in my draw. They just don't group to my liking and the bullet performance is marginal.

Sabotloader
That make allot of sense.
I am the first one to fall pray to advertising hype and to try the LATEST & GREATEST when it comes to hunting but sometimes newer isn't better.
I have some of just about all the popular bulletts out there but none of the all lead to try,but I will.

case in point and I'm not trying to start a broadhead debate,to each his own in everything.
I was at my hunting lease night before last,I shot a doe with my Oneida ,everynight when I sign out I look on the board and see if anyone else is still out there,if there is I wait for them to come in.
I dont want to leave someone out there that may be hurt or need help in some way,this guy comes in LATE with a sad look on his face,I said what happened?
He said,I shot a buck but cant find him,did you find the arrow I said?,yes,can I see it.
All green smelly goop.I said,you gut shot him,NO WAY he said,WAY,I said.He told me the story and what happened was,he was shooting one the latest and greatest mechanical broadheads with the blades facing forward and he had a severe quartering shot.One of the blades deployed,the others didn't,causing the arrow to take an almost 90% turn and gut shoot the animal.
He looked at my doe and said wht did you shoot,I said,I shoot a neat thing called an ARROW HEAD. It has a sharp point and one big blade that is sharp on both sides,they have been working for 1000's of years.

Sometimes newer and more techinical isn't better.
But I guess thats how we learn is by trying new things.

I guess I just talked in a big circle.
Oh well,thats me,I see both sides.

sabotloader
I guess I do see a point, while I do like accurate bullets [ the best bullet in the world is worthless if you dont hit some thing in th right place with it] I have used SW's for many years and never had any of the problems I have heard of, they hold their velocity better for long range shots which I worry about more than the flatness of trajectory. The 200 gr is really an exceptional bullet, I have used it on a lot of bear and boar and it has always done a fine job, I used the 250 gr gr on several deer and it worked fine very similar to the 250gr Gold Dot. I tried the 300gr bonded on a big hog and got more penatration and less expansion than I wanted so I suspect that it is designed for elk or bigger size game. Iguess I like them for my spot for two hundred yard shots better than regular hunting and the fact that in my Triumph they hold the same POI as the Gold Dots out to 125 yards, but as long as the velocity is kept up to around 2,000 fps at thePOI they have done well in use for me. Lee

Hogs and deerare notgelatin, clay or boards. Hogs and deer are living animals that require a properly placed shot if one is going to humanely dispatch the animal. i could care less whether the bulletleaves an exit hole. When the shot goes off the animal is going down in its tracks 95% of the time.

Shot a hog in the guts with a 240 grain XTP back in February: My first gut shot animal in years.The range was 120 yards. Hated that the animal suffered for the 30 or so minutes it took me to findand kill it: I often think about it.The muzzleloader bullet is not made that wil reliably turn a gut shot into a bang flop.

The 250 grain SST/Shockwave works for me and i see no need to change.

I agree that there are few bad bullets out there only bad info on how to use them (150g for the PB at www.powerbelt.com), and I certainly defer to your wisdom and experience with the SW, since I am not a SW user, and you have 40 kills. I did evaluate the SW for my use in the Savage, and I was going to use it based on accuracy, in the 300g version, then I found the Parker Ballistic Extrement and it was just about as accurate, but expanded better (the nose was not as hard), so I used them last year. The PBEwere OK, but I did have some fragmentation on a frontal shot on a doe, so I am going Barnes Origonal this year and I am expecting a lot of good performance from that bullet in my Savage. The gentleman that posted asked for any and all info on SW, I was trying to steer him to the 300g SW, since I believe it is a superior bullet to the 250g SW without loosing much trajectory.

As for your shooting range guide on bullets, I believe your expansion range is pretty accurate on the high end, but I believe you could shoot the GD harder and some do in theSavage.

I also believe Sabotloader is onto something, with accuracy vs Terminal Performance. You can have a very accurate bullet, but it not have good terminal performance. When it comes to terminal performance, you want expansion on meat not bone and you want >>deep<< penetration. How much is enough for "deep penetration"? In articles referenced by Randy Wakeman on bullet killing for Dr. Martin Frakel, Frakel said that it takes 12" of penetration to kill a person, that is also true of a deer, since the are of similar weight class/size and chest cavity thickness. Sowe need a bullet that expands welland gets at least 12" into the animal tokill it quickly. With regard to quick kills, having an animal run all the time100 or 150 yards is not quick kill. I believe I have read several people who have had non-quick kills with the SW, because they shot thru and there was a lot of tracking to be done---I recall a big black bear and that has gotta be not fun---going after a blackbear that has been shot and it might have shot thru and not killed it quickly---accurate as heck, but little expansion. To me that is not a "good bullet", it may be the most accurate bullet on the market in most guns, and if they soften up the head/tip I think it would be excellent. This article swayed me:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Parker%20BE%20TC%20SW%20shot%20into%20ballistic%20 gel.pdf

from SW to PBE, see what he said about SW:

heard mixed stories about their perormance. Anyway, you don't hear about issues with Barnes TMZ, MZ, TSX, yata and you don't hear about issues with Nosler Partions or Gold Dots, some of the other bullets have issues on use in various MLers.Best Wishes,
Chap

gleason.chapman
Well,the expansion of all hollow point and soft point bullets is a combination of design and velocity on impact.
while I don't doubt that it is possible to run into a bad [non expanding] bullet in any brand and it will happened should we condemn the whole lot? The only case of that kind I have actually personally seen was a club member that called for help tracking he shot a deer with a 300gr bonded SW and was having trouble following it the deer had a neat round hole right behind the fore leg and when I tracked it down it had gone about 100yds the neat round hole went clean through the deer.
I ask him to show me what he was using turns out my daughter used more powder when she was 12 ears old!
It does not suprise me that some people have these problems when you hear about the size powder load they use when I run into that I always recommend PB's which will shoot good and expand wel with 70 gr or more but you can not load them up to much. I personally believe less than 110 gr of a powder that gives a decent velocity like 777 or BH is to light for SW's. I actually prefer the 250 Gold Dot for normal shooting but there is one spot I hunt where I need 220 yd capability in two directions and when it comes to that 120 gr BH and a 250gr SW or 125 gr BH and a 200gr SW will remain my load. Lee
Got a unlimited town permit for bow again this year. Hope I get some good chances to use it the wife is going to the hospital for an artificalknee on the 7th of Oct so I have 5 days to hunt before I start taking care of her, hope shes back on her feet in a couple weeks after the operation they say thats possible if there are no complications.
Lee

I hope she recovers quickly and completely, I will pray for that. I switched to a cross bow this year (it is legal in Va) and have not got one yet, only small ones in range. Best Wishes on your bow hunting,
Chap