T/C and Shockwaves
08-23-2006, 05:02 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7
T/C and Shockwaves
Hello everyone. I am new to this board.I have found it very interesting. I am from SW VA and an avid muzzleloader hunter.I have hunted with a Knight Wolverine for several years but I moved up to a T/C Encore 50cal.last year.I tried the T/C Shockwaves in my Knight but was very dissappointed. The accuracy was great but the bullets would not expand on deer. I went back to the XTP MAG 240. I still want to try the shockwaves and I just bought a box of 200gr. Did I Make a mistake? What about 777 or APP? Which one do you guys prefer? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
08-23-2006, 07:32 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: T/C and Shockwaves
StriperGuy
I have heard this same story about the SST/SW, especially at close range and at the velocity that you are shooting the bullet. Where this bullet really shines is at long range shots... 100 yards and beyond - the higher BC of this bullet makes it a lot less difficult to shoot those longer ranges + at the longer ranges and the lower velocities the bullet seems to work great....
But not to fear,Hornady makes a 10mm 200grain XTP, that you can buy in bulk, - this bullet will really work in those close range situations and will shoot very well out to 150 yards, well actually further but you have to start compensating for drop...
I have been shooting this bullet a lot this year using 110 grains of T7-2f and a blue MMP 50/40 sabot, it really does perform well. I will use it this year during a late season deer hunt and I will use it with a lot of confidence.
Good luck...
The accuracy was great but the bullets would not expand on deer.
But not to fear,Hornady makes a 10mm 200grain XTP, that you can buy in bulk, - this bullet will really work in those close range situations and will shoot very well out to 150 yards, well actually further but you have to start compensating for drop...
I have been shooting this bullet a lot this year using 110 grains of T7-2f and a blue MMP 50/40 sabot, it really does perform well. I will use it this year during a late season deer hunt and I will use it with a lot of confidence.
Good luck...
08-23-2006, 07:39 PM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: mississippi by way of Florida
Posts: 357
RE: T/C and Shockwaves
I've been using shockwaves for 3 years now, the 250 grain bullets.
From the closest of about 35 or 40 yards to nearly 200, I have had nothing but great performance.
I load pretty hot too, 130 grainsof 777 loose.
Exactly what are your powder loads and how do you know the bullets did not expand? Did you recover any?
I have heard people say things like this, but generally they say they shot a deer and never recovered it, then blame it on the bullet and say it did not perform.
Hank
From the closest of about 35 or 40 yards to nearly 200, I have had nothing but great performance.
I load pretty hot too, 130 grainsof 777 loose.
Exactly what are your powder loads and how do you know the bullets did not expand? Did you recover any?
I have heard people say things like this, but generally they say they shot a deer and never recovered it, then blame it on the bullet and say it did not perform.
Hank
) , so they don't shoot shockwaves at all good. They tend to like powerbelts the best.
08-24-2006, 02:22 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: T/C and Shockwaves
ORIGINAL: ahankster
I've been using shockwaves for 3 years now, the 250 grain bullets.
From the closest of about 35 or 40 yards to nearly 200, I have had nothing but great performance.
I load pretty hot too, 130 grainsof 777 loose.
Exactly what are your powder loads and how do you know the bullets did not expand? Did you recover any?
I have heard people say things like this, but generally they say they shot a deer and never recovered it, then blame it on the bullet and say it did not perform.
Hank
I've been using shockwaves for 3 years now, the 250 grain bullets.
From the closest of about 35 or 40 yards to nearly 200, I have had nothing but great performance.
I load pretty hot too, 130 grainsof 777 loose.
Exactly what are your powder loads and how do you know the bullets did not expand? Did you recover any?
I have heard people say things like this, but generally they say they shot a deer and never recovered it, then blame it on the bullet and say it did not perform.
Hank
08-24-2006, 07:10 AM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: T/C and Shockwaves
Triple Se7en
I agree with both you (ankster) - and I do not think I ever said the bullet was a failure, I am indicating from what I have read and seen the SST/SW is not the best performing bullet at close range unless it strikes a bone and begins expansion. The speed of and the design of the SW enhances its ability to pass through thin skinned animals with often little or know expansion at close range. Mind you the animal is dead! but it may not be dead quickly enough. Anyway quickly enough for me, I would like every animal to be anchored in its tracks - tall order I understanded. At longer ranges I have know problem with the SST/SW.
My point was, I believe there are better bullets for a ML at close range than a SST/SW. If you are constantly hunting or may take shots at longer range use the SW, but for me most of my shots are goingto be less than 75 - I prefer a bullet goes in one size and comes out bigger on the other side every time without speculation.
But!, that is just me to each his own...
I agree with both you (ankster) - and I do not think I ever said the bullet was a failure, I am indicating from what I have read and seen the SST/SW is not the best performing bullet at close range unless it strikes a bone and begins expansion. The speed of and the design of the SW enhances its ability to pass through thin skinned animals with often little or know expansion at close range. Mind you the animal is dead! but it may not be dead quickly enough. Anyway quickly enough for me, I would like every animal to be anchored in its tracks - tall order I understanded. At longer ranges I have know problem with the SST/SW.
My point was, I believe there are better bullets for a ML at close range than a SST/SW. If you are constantly hunting or may take shots at longer range use the SW, but for me most of my shots are goingto be less than 75 - I prefer a bullet goes in one size and comes out bigger on the other side every time without speculation.
But!, that is just me to each his own...
08-24-2006, 09:06 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: T/C and Shockwaves
Sabotloader
We can debate this until we're blue in the face. Expansion depends on speed and shot location with most-all coppers. Every deer wound-channel is different. Saying a bullet failed - or did not expand - or did not penetrate has too many variables to consider.
But please be-so-kind to offer the thread-starter here the name of copper-clad, polymer tip bullets that expand better with moderate powder chargesat sub-50 yard range - in your opinion???
I use a missle-shaped, very slight-opening HP lead sabot/bullet .... ie... Buffalo S.S.B with light magnum loads of 777 (100 gr. FFF). I don't feel there is a better bullet than the 285-325 gr. SSB at 25-150 yards using 70-120 grains of powder -- unless you wantedutmost expansion & a little more work for achieving accuracy -- in that case I would use the Precision Keith Nose 300 gr.
We can debate this until we're blue in the face. Expansion depends on speed and shot location with most-all coppers. Every deer wound-channel is different. Saying a bullet failed - or did not expand - or did not penetrate has too many variables to consider.
But please be-so-kind to offer the thread-starter here the name of copper-clad, polymer tip bullets that expand better with moderate powder chargesat sub-50 yard range - in your opinion???
I use a missle-shaped, very slight-opening HP lead sabot/bullet .... ie... Buffalo S.S.B with light magnum loads of 777 (100 gr. FFF). I don't feel there is a better bullet than the 285-325 gr. SSB at 25-150 yards using 70-120 grains of powder -- unless you wantedutmost expansion & a little more work for achieving accuracy -- in that case I would use the Precision Keith Nose 300 gr.
08-24-2006, 09:39 AM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: mississippi by way of Florida
Posts: 357
RE: T/C and Shockwaves
Sabotloader,
Never took what you said to infer that you felt the bullet was a failure. I have heard the same reports of a lack of expansion. I am not saying these people are liars either. But, almost every time the question is asked about load, distance and shot placement as well as what the recovered bullet or wound channel looked like; the answer is that they didn't get the bullet or deer back, but were positive that they made a "perfect" shot.
There are some great hollow point sabots available, my kids have taken a couple of deer with some Hornady XTPs early last year. I was running low on Shockwaves and since my kids never shoot past 100 yards, I knew it wouldn't be a problem. I'll honestly say that if I KNEW that I would never shoot past 100 yards, I would be very, very happy using the XTPs forever. The damage was devastating. My problem is that past 100 yards, the ballistics just aren't good enuff.
So, in my experience, the best bullet around it the shockwave. I personally haven't experience the "non expansion" issue on a close up shot and hope I never do. If I could have the best of both worlds, the almost guaranteed devestation of a hollowpoint and the great ballistics of a polymer tip, I would certainly want that.
Hank
Never took what you said to infer that you felt the bullet was a failure. I have heard the same reports of a lack of expansion. I am not saying these people are liars either. But, almost every time the question is asked about load, distance and shot placement as well as what the recovered bullet or wound channel looked like; the answer is that they didn't get the bullet or deer back, but were positive that they made a "perfect" shot.
There are some great hollow point sabots available, my kids have taken a couple of deer with some Hornady XTPs early last year. I was running low on Shockwaves and since my kids never shoot past 100 yards, I knew it wouldn't be a problem. I'll honestly say that if I KNEW that I would never shoot past 100 yards, I would be very, very happy using the XTPs forever. The damage was devastating. My problem is that past 100 yards, the ballistics just aren't good enuff.
So, in my experience, the best bullet around it the shockwave. I personally haven't experience the "non expansion" issue on a close up shot and hope I never do. If I could have the best of both worlds, the almost guaranteed devestation of a hollowpoint and the great ballistics of a polymer tip, I would certainly want that.
Hank
08-24-2006, 05:27 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7
RE: T/C and Shockwaves
Hey Guys. Thanks for the info. I hope I haven't started an argument.I should have been more specific about my problem. As for the expansion problem , I shot two deer and made perfect shots right behind the shoulder.Both deer were finally recovered but it was not easy.There was no blood trail from either deer and both deer looked like they had been shot with an arrow tipped with a field point.Both deer probably traveled 100 yards.The load I was using was a 100grs. Pyrodex and a 250 S/W.I am still hoping someone can tell me what to expect from the smaller 200gr S/W.I am curious about accuracy and performance from my T/C.I am also switching from 777 to APP loose. Thanks Guys!!!!!!!!!
08-24-2006, 08:01 PM
#10
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: mississippi by way of Florida
Posts: 357
RE: T/C and Shockwaves
Striperguy,
There are allot of people here with allot of experience. There are a few things that always tend to bring up lively discussions. Some of these include powerbelt performance, or lack thereof, 777 crud rings, Shockwave performance at close range, types of 209 primers, old style vs inline, iron sights vs scopes, pellets vs loose, on and on.
Most of the time it is lively, positive, polite and infomative like this thread has been. One kinda has to wade through all the great info and figure out what works for them. What works for me, even in the same gun, might not work for you.
Bottom line on the question you ask, if you think you are going to shoot within 100 yards,I would suggest perhaps the Hornady XTP or some other 250 to 300 grain hollow point style bullet and sabot. If you might need more than 100 yards, I would stick with the shockwaves. Maybe when using the shockwaves at close range move over to shoulder shots and move to double lung/heart shots at longer range.
Welcome to the forum, you'll learn allot, I know I have.
Good luck
Hank
There are allot of people here with allot of experience. There are a few things that always tend to bring up lively discussions. Some of these include powerbelt performance, or lack thereof, 777 crud rings, Shockwave performance at close range, types of 209 primers, old style vs inline, iron sights vs scopes, pellets vs loose, on and on.
Most of the time it is lively, positive, polite and infomative like this thread has been. One kinda has to wade through all the great info and figure out what works for them. What works for me, even in the same gun, might not work for you.
Bottom line on the question you ask, if you think you are going to shoot within 100 yards,I would suggest perhaps the Hornady XTP or some other 250 to 300 grain hollow point style bullet and sabot. If you might need more than 100 yards, I would stick with the shockwaves. Maybe when using the shockwaves at close range move over to shoulder shots and move to double lung/heart shots at longer range.
Welcome to the forum, you'll learn allot, I know I have.
Good luck
Hank